Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[Firefoot]

Hmm... I'm not sure it would be appropriate for Leof to ride out with the soldiers to see the lords? If they're going out in full array, he'd stick out like a sore thumb, I'd think. Then again, I don't consider myself well-versed in feudal politics and policies, so he could go with if that would be an appropriate thing for him to do.

Alternately, I'd be happy to get some kind of storyline going with any other characters who might be hanging around behind? Who all would that be?

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, Foley, just let me know the Post number you want me to look at - or PM me.

By the way, it just so happens that Rohan is NOT FEUDAL in its governmental structure. It's Pre-Feudal. Feudalism means that anybody who is not a lord is a serf; serf = not free. Pre-feudalism means that everybody who is not a lord is probably a farmer working his own land. Back in the old days they were called "wights" until the Normans took over England in 1066. It didn't mean "undead" back in the day; it meant "human". But we can just call them either "freemen" or "farmers".

Feudal term - - Pre-Feudal (Rohan) term:

Knight - - - - Eorling (wealthy landholder, breeds & owns his horses)
Lord - - - - Eorl (there are 3, over East, West, & Middle Emnets)
Vassal - - - no such thing
Fief - - - no such thing

So the class structure in "The Mark" (their own name for their lands - Rohan is what the Gondorians call it) is:

King - ruler
Eorl - general in war, judge in his Emnet
Eorling - owns his horse, local judge for freemen nearby
Freeman/Farmer - owns & works his own land, not wealthy enough to own a horse


Suggestion:
The way things have become structured in the Middle Emnet, the three "lords" besides Athanar are particularly wealthy land holders who wield more power locally than the usual Eorling; this is, perhaps, due to the fact that laws have been, shall we say, cavalierly observed of late; and the new Eorl is there to re-establish a more just observance of the law, and maybe even return lands to freemen who have lost theirs to unjust Eorlings.

Just a note on the above: Nogrod and I have been discussing how this is supposed to work, and it has been a very interesting process. The above paragraph is strictly a suggestion by way of explaining how things have gotten to the almost Feudal condition in the Middle Emnet compared to how they are supposed to be in Pre-Feudal Rohan - and this suggestion is mine and only mine, and it's entirely up to Nogrod and others whether to accept it. It was really a bit of a brainstorm. Far be it from me to tramp on toes!

[Nogrod]

I'm warmly welcoming all help you lmp can give us on older language for as someone who in the end writes in a foreign language I just feel oftentimes amiss with how to say certain things, especially making them ring right in the context of people living and talking in some far past.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Suggestion:
The way things have become structured in the Middle Emnet, the three "lords" besides Athanar are particularly wealthy land holders who wield more power locally than the usual Eorling; this is, perhaps, due to the fact that laws have been, shall we say, cavalierly observed of late; and the new Eorl is there to re-establish a more just observance of the law, and maybe even return lands to freemen who have lost theirs to unjust Eorlings.

Just a note on the above: Nogrod and I have been discussing how this is supposed to work, and it has been a very interesting process. The above paragraph is strictly a suggestion by way of explaining how things have gotten to the almost Feudal condition in the Middle Emnet compared to how they are supposed to be in Pre-Feudal Rohan - and this suggestion is mine and only mine, and it's entirely up to Nogrod and others whether to accept it. It was really a bit of a brainstorm. Far be it from me to tramp on toes!

It has been an interesting process indeed - and we probably should have done better to go through that back when lmp left as I must say I have been thinking more or less along some feaudalistic lines of thought all the time (but can see the point of making Rohan and Gondor quite different on that issue - and that way more according to Tolkien-universe). But it is interesting to try and bring together both those things that have been written and how it should be... And actually I find lmp's latest suggestion quite good (the bolded one).

We'll have to work that out before lord Athanar and the Scarburg people meet the first lord. So maybe a few days (RL) still left. But as things are here in the open now, I'd appreciate any comments you others might have on the subject.

[Nogrod]

Oh, and sorry for not posting...

I spent the last night watching the US. election results & analysis program up to 4am from BBC and understandably have been both very tired and overtly busy today (needed to do also the stuff I would have otherwise done yesterday evening).