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Old 11-01-2010, 03:36 PM   #1
Galadriel55
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Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
"the time Galadriel refers to, is Arda healed "
It is possible, Findegil. After all, many things are supposed to reunite when Arda will be remade (for example, the Silmarils). However, I've always thought that the healing of Arda is a process pretty much similar to fixing, let's say, a toy car. You take it apart, you clean all the little pieces and take out all the dirt that got stuck in it, but when you put it back together, it functions totally differently than it did before. I don't ean better - literally differently. What would the healing of Arda look like? I don't think that even the roles of different rces are going to remain the same.
"doesn't Treebeard himself regard it as a bit of Elven whimsy, rather than a prophecy" but don't elven profecies, even whimsies, eventually prove to be true?
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:57 PM   #2
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Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Well, ents or entwives could tie themselves together into rafts and just float to Valinor. They would be their own flotation devices, as well as masts. They could get the dogwoods to paddle.
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:16 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
"the time Galadriel refers to, is Arda healed "
It is possible, Findegil. After all, many things are supposed to reunite when Arda will be remade (for example, the Silmarils). However, I've always thought that the healing of Arda is a process pretty much similar to fixing, let's say, a toy car. You take it apart, you clean all the little pieces and take out all the dirt that got stuck in it, but when you put it back together, it functions totally differently than it did before. I don't ean better - literally differently. What would the healing of Arda look like? I don't think that even the roles of different rces are going to remain the same.
Sorry if this sounds rude, Galadriel55, but I honestly don't understand what this has to do with the question.

And it's not just "possible"– I think it can only mean that, or else a roundabout way of saying "never": Galadriel is talking about meeting Treebread in a place which had been destroyed long ago.

By the way–
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You take it apart, you clean all the little pieces and take out all the dirt that got stuck in it, but when you put it back together, it functions totally differently than it did before.
I hate to break this to you, but that's not what's supposed to happen when you fix a toy car.

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"doesn't Treebeard himself regard it as a bit of Elven whimsy, rather than a prophecy" but don't elven profecies, even whimsies, eventually prove to be true?
Again sorry, but you're begging the question here. I'm not sure it is a prophecy in the first place, and if it is I'm not sure it refers to Valinor anyway.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:16 PM   #4
Galadriel55
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The car was a bad example. I'll try another one. Imagine you're making a puzzle - actually making it, not just solving it. When you put in together, tho, you don't like the way a certain piece looks. To change it, however, you need to change the surrounding pieces as well. The result is that when the new puzzle is put together, it looks totally different without the bad piece.
When Sauron was destroyed, the last of the "Old World" had to leave ME, because the reoval of Sauron changed the world....and that makes the entire picture look different, not only that one piece of the puzzle......
Is this explanation better?

It is also possible that the ents' souls returned to Valinor. The souls - spirits? - of Elves go to Mandos, so why can't ents? They are living creatures just the same. That means that they'd have the perfect opportunity to reunite with the entwives. Maybe it's not specifically in Mandos, but somewhere in Aman. Perhaps Yavanna will make her own place to keep the souls of her creatures.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:44 PM   #5
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It is also possible that the ents' souls returned to Valinor. The souls - spirits? - of Elves go to Mandos, so why can't ents? They are living creatures just the same. That means that they'd have the perfect opportunity to reunite with the entwives. Maybe it's not specifically in Mandos, but somewhere in Aman. Perhaps Yavanna will make her own place to keep the souls of her creatures.
They aren't living creatures just the same. Souls are only confirmed for the Eruhini--Elves and Men. It's always seemed to me that the Valar-created speakers are fundamentally different in that respect. We get the most information for Dwarves--Durin is reincarnated in one of his children--but even that is shrouded in mystery. I don't think you can assume anything, even the existence of souls, in an Ent or a Dwarf or an Eagle. They may be sentient, but they lack the theme of Iluvatar which sets Elves and Men apart from the rest of creation.

That isn't to say that your idea couldn't happen, but it's mere speculation and the little evidence we have seems to be against it. It'd make for a wicked fan fic, though.
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:34 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
Souls are only confirmed for the Eruhini--Elves and Men.
I'm not so sure. Dwarves, we are told, were given "a life of their own" by Eru who told Aule "Even as I gave being to the thoughts of the Ainur ... so now I have taken thy desire and given to it a place therein."

That could be ambiguous, but almost immediately Eru refers to the Dwarves as "the children of my adoption" suggesting that they had Fea as did Men and Elves - tho their fates may well have been different from both.

Later in the same tale (Of Aule and Yavanna) Manwe tells Yavanna (referring to Ents)
Quote:
Eru hath spoken, saying ... When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar ... and their just anger shall be feared.
It seems clear from that last that Ents do have spirits (Fea) like the Eruhini (tho Ents would then also be children of Eru's adoption, similar to the Dwarves.

One other item to consider. The Music didn't (and was never intended to) tell everything as in this quote from Ainulindale
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To none but himself has Illuvatar revealed all that he has in store, and in every age there come forth things that are new and have no foretelling, for they do not proceed from the past.
So it would not be inconsistent if Eru DID decide to add new incarnated beings (with Fea).

Last edited by Puddleglum; 11-10-2010 at 01:38 AM.
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