Charles Manson did not murder Boromir...

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

I conclude that it is this dream sender who is responsible for Boromir's death.

Obviously you mean Tolkien is responsible, right, since he set up the scenario and prompted the dream sender.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Obviously you mean Tolkien is responsible, right, since he set up the scenario and prompted the dream sender.

Not at all, as we don't know who put the idea in his head in the first place!

But I'm limiting my links to causality to Middle Earth and all realms above and below.

[Morthoron]

It would have been difficult to convict Saruman of Boromir's murder.

1) There was a war going on. Leaders may be tried on atrocity charges, but not necessarily on combat deaths. Boromir, being a war captain of Gondor, could certainly be termed as a direct combatant, or at least a soldier of a hostile country.

2) The Orcs were attempting to capture, not kill, the Hobbits. Boromir's violent interference against soldiers of an enemy state led to their retaliation and his death. There is no direct proof (written orders) that show conclusively that Saruman ordered the deaths of Fellowship members (except the Hobbits), and any conversation entered as evidence would amount to hearsay, as the Orcs carrying out the mission were most likely all dead, killed by the Rohirrim outside of Fangorn.

3) There is no direct evidence that all the Orcs involved in Boromir's combat death were directly reporting to Saruman alone. There is ample evidence that shows there were Orcs reporting to Saruman and Orcs reporting to Sauron in the same vicinity along the Anduin.

A good lawyer would get him off on that charge easily. Saruman would however face multiple charges regarding the burning of the Westfold, Hobbitnapping and other nefarious deeds.

[Mithalwen]

I suggest you at least take Gandalf in for questioning... what about that stuff he did as Olorin with dreams and visions inspiring folk to great deeds?

[Kitanna]

If we're looking for someone to fault can't it be said Aragorn had a hand in Boromir's death? He's the one who insisted Boromir go after the two younger Hobbits. He could have just sent Boromir to a time-out for chasing off Frodo, but he sent him into the fray.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

It would have been difficult to convict Saruman of Boromir's murder.

Only if the trial stayed with the facts...

1) There was a war going on. Leaders may be tried on atrocity charges, but not necessarily on combat deaths. Boromir, being a war captain of Gondor, could certainly be termed as a direct combatant, or at least a soldier of a hostile country.

But he (Boromir) was from Gondor, which Saruman did not cite in his declaration of war. Also, Boromir was in Rohan.

2) The Orcs were attempting to capture, not kill, the Hobbits. Boromir's violent interference against soldiers of an enemy state led to their retaliation and his death. There is no direct proof (written orders) that show conclusively that Saruman ordered the deaths of Fellowship members (except the Hobbits), and any conversation entered as evidence would amount to hearsay, as the Orcs carrying out the mission were most likely all dead, killed by the Rohirrim outside of Fangorn.

I have it all on DVD!

3) There is no direct evidence that all the Orcs involved in Boromir's combat death were directly reporting to Saruman alone. There is ample evidence that shows there were Orcs reporting to Saruman and Orcs reporting to Sauron in the same vicinity along the Anduin.

After the crime, the orcs head west, not east, and I'd be sure to mention that.

A good lawyer would get him off on that charge easily. Saruman would however face multiple charges regarding the burning of the Westfold, Hobbitnapping and other nefarious deeds.

Bring out the spikey wheel!

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I suggest you at least take Gandalf in for questioning... what about that stuff he did as Olorin with dreams and visions inspiring folk to great deeds?

But Gandalf, in this case, isn't the dream weaver - and I don't think that Gandalf was in Gondor when Boromir dreamed his fateful dream.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

If we're looking for someone to fault can't it be said Aragorn had a hand in Boromir's death? He's the one who insisted Boromir go after the two younger Hobbits. He could have just sent Boromir to a time-out for chasing off Frodo, but he sent him into the fray.

Agreed, though Aragorn didn't know that the orcs would be more attracted to Merry and Pippin than Frodo or Sam. If Aragorn *was* that insightful, surely he wouldn't have left Frodo go off on his own in the first place.

Thank you for your replies. But the question remains: who is the dream weaver?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by alatar

But Gandalf, in this case, isn't the dream weaver - and I don't think that Gandalf was in Gondor when Boromir dreamed his fateful dream.

Would he have had to have been? Is wizard with pointy stick and stuff... and I bet he weighs more than a duck.

BURN HIM!!!!


Sorry wrong fillum....

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by alatar

Thank you for your replies. But the question remains: who is the dream weaver?

Morpheus? If he was good enough for the Greeks, certainly he's good enough to harass the boys of Gondor.

Who in Middle Earth has the power to send off dreams?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

Thank you for your replies. But the question remains: who is the dream weaver?

Same person who sent Merry his curious barrow dream.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by alatar

Thank you for your replies. But the question remains: who is the dream weaver?

Gary Wright.