WW LXXXII: Return to Tol-in-Gaurhoth

[Thinlómien]

Alright, Agan pointed out to me that I should tell you right now who died. So it's Legate, thanks to my choosing Agan's left hand. Off to write the narration...

[Thinlómien]

When the third day in the pit came closer to an end, the Elves had not reached an agreement.
"We want to lynch Skip," Loslote, Nerwen, Green and Legate said.
"We want to lynch Legate," Ozban, Skip, Wilwarin and Inziladun said.
Both parties were relentless, and the rest thought the conflict stupid because they wanted someone else entirely to die. No one listened to them.

"Well then if you can't reach a conclusion, why not let fate decide?" asked Boromir, one of those who took neither side.
"That would be the fairest," Nogrod said quickly, himself staying out of the quarrel as well.
"I say we have them arm-wrestle. That will tell us enough," said Eönwë with a cunning look on his face.

Not having better propositions, the crowd agreed. Skip and Legate sat down, locked their hands and started arm-wrestling. Neither of them wanted to die, and both of them were experinced as hunters and thus not light of arm. But in the end Legate beat Skip: after all, the jeweller was by profession also a smith and thus his arms were used to hard work, but Skip used most of his days just writing sonnets to his beautiful Lady Finduilas.

Eönwë smiled. "So let us kill Legate then."
"What?!" shouted Legate, Green, Nerwen and Loslote in a chorus.
"Yes," said Eönwë. "You saw what happened to Glirdan last night. These foul beings have incredible strength. Thus, one of them would be strong."
"I think that makes sense," Boromir agreed and the ones who had wanted to see Legate dead agreed eagerly.
"So let us kill Legate," said Nogrod, who tended to end up as a judge.

Legate wasn't very surprised when he heard his companions wanted to kill him. It seemed fitting to die in the darkness, to die of the darkness. Legate had never imagined he could survive days in a place like the pit, after all, one thing he cherised above many others was the pure white light.

"So I would die where our Seer died. Take me to the pit," he said.
"Not a werewolf with our brave hero!" Ozban protested, but Nerwen gave him such a sour look that he quit complaining.
"Isn't it enough he dies?" Loslote asked, irritated.

They took Legate there, and Skip and Wilwarin grabbed his shoulders.
"Any last words?" asked Inziladun.
"Only this," said Legate. "Here it's darkness, darkness, darkness. Always the darkness, not even the briefest period of light, just the hours of slightly lesser darkness where you can see vague shapes if you really try. It's difficult to see anything clearly in the dark, and thus I forgive you."
"I see," said Nogrod.
"I think that's enough," said Boromir.
"Let him go," said Eönwë, and Wilwarin and Skip pushed Legate over the side.

Long he fell and he cried when he hit the bottom of the pit. There wasn't the slightest echo of wolvish howl to his death cry.

~*~

The Dead
Thinlómien (mod) - murdered in cold blood on Night1
Shastanis (seer) - cast to the pit in the pit on Day1
Pitch (ordo) - driven crazy and throttled in his fur scarf on Day2
Glirdan (ranger) - decapitated by a wolf's paw on Night3
Legate (ordo) - fell to the pit on Day3

The Living
Green - veteran hunter with a striking resemblance to an opossum
Boromir - incompetent gatewarden
Eönwë - hunter
Inziladun - weaponsmith
Loslote - young tag-along girl with frizzy hair
Nerwen - young and impatient hunter who makes animal statues of wood and likes the colour green
Nogrod - narcoleptic master-hunter
Ozban - young and naive hunter and admirer of Finrod Felagund
Skip - an admirer of Finduilas's
Wilwarin - hunter


Night4 has started. You all know what to do.

[Thinlómien]

Nerwen had never been one to have vivid and elaborate dreams. Mostly she woke up remembering nothing of her dreams and the dreams she remembered were simple: she had dreamt of skinning a rabbit, or of climbing a tree and seeing the beautiful green light in the leaves. But this place had changed everything, now she dreamt every night, of weird things and frightening things, and she remembered it all in the morning.

Tonight, Nerwen was walking in a hall filled with gigantic wooden statues, just like the figurines she tended to carve when she had free time, only a hundred times bigger. She could recognise the swan she had carved for her nephew, the bear she kept on her windowsill and the eagle that she had brought to her father's grave one night. She didn't know what they were doing here, for it seemed to her as if she still walked somewhere in the fortress of Tol-in-Gaurhoth.

On the Isle of Werewolves there must be a wolf... she thought and her eyes indeed found a massive wolf of beechwood poised as if ready to jump at its prey. She started walking towards it, not knowing why. She stood at the foot of the statue and looked up. The wolf looked almost benevolent, or at least there was a smile playing on its face. As she watched, the wolf statue started falling towards her, as inevitable as death...

...and she woke up to a second of relief before heavy paws landed on her chest and jaws closed around her neck. There was a rush of pain more terrible than she had ever experienced, and then everything was gone.

In the morning, the Elves found Nerwen's body torn in pieces.


~*~


The Dead
Thinlómien (mod) - murdered in cold blood on Night1
Shastanis (seer) - cast to the pit in the pit on Day1
Pitch (ordo) - driven crazy and throttled in his fur scarf on Day2
Glirdan (ranger) - decapitated by a wolf's paw on Night3
Legate (ordo) - fell to the pit on Day3
Nerwen (ordo) - killed in a nightmare come true on Night4

The Living
Green - veteran hunter with a striking resemblance to an opossum
Boromir - incompetent gatewarden
Eönwë - hunter
Inziladun - weaponsmith
Loslote - young tag-along girl with frizzy hair
Nogrod - narcoleptic master-hunter
Ozban - young and naive hunter and admirer of Finrod Felagund
Skip - an admirer of Finduilas's
Wilwarin - hunter


Day4 has now begun. Talk. Hunter hunt. Wolves no private talk. And so on. Good luck to both teams!

[skip spence]

*sigh*

This isle truly is accursed! And the Doom of Mandos keeps haunting us until the end of time! Was really hoping that Legate was guilty, but after the DL had passed and it was revealed that I’d live I immediately got the feeling we’d lynch another innocent. It’s just been that kind of game. Don’t I wish I tried with Lottie instead!

But seriously people, we need to hit a wolf today, or at the very least, the cobbler. If we don’t, we’re as good as dead. And yes, I am the Hunter. Felt I had to reveal and put the fear of death in Inziladun in order to save my own life over an unknown I believed could be a wolf (my pick was actually Legate *double-sigh*)

It both worked and misfired, because while it did save my life (as it seems) it also cost another innocent's life. I now almost feel it’s a shame I wasn’t the one who died, because I understand that you can’t trust my words just like that, and with Legate a proven innocent, I fear that I might seem the obvious lynch today (though in actuality there no good reason why it should be so). But really, if you lynch me, the baddies are 4 against 3 toMorrow and the wolves win the game, it’s that simple. And I urge you, be wary of any who pushes the idea of lynching me. The wolves are at the verge of victory and will be eager for closure.

I do have another reason to reveal too, apart from saving my life, and that is one I feel should come out into the open given how this game has developed.

[Boromir88]

Well, as much as I was agreeing with Wilwa earlier about how the hunter's purpose is taken away when being revealed, I was going to throw out today that we may have no choice but to have our hunter known. So, I can certainly understand your reasons Skip for wanting to reveal. For most of the game you've been highly defensive, which usually indicated either wolf or gifted. I'm gonna believe you, barring someone else saying..hold on I'm the hunter! Then my brain would be in a real mess, in trying to figure that one out. And even if you did have to reveal you could still make the wolves completely terrified to get rid of you.

Anyway it's dire right now. We need a wolf, or at least the cobbler TODAY. Another ordo, and it's as good as over tomorrow. Shall finish catching up on everything I missed yesterday. I'm having difficulties understanding this Legate lynch, or how it happened.

Edit: crossed with Skip

[wilwarin538]

Ok, well that was a dissapointment, I was really sure of Legate.

Now we have 9 people: 3 wolves, 1 Hunter, 4 Ordos and 1 Cobbler. If we get it wrong both today and tomorrow, we lose.

Now Skippy. Hmm. I don't like this, cause I thought we had decided that the Hunter should NOT reveal, and we only have the one Gifted left.

Now lets think about this. If we don't get a wolf today and the wolves kill the Hunter tonight (and the hunter is hunting an innocent) then tomorrow we are left with 3 wolves, 3 Ordos and a Cobbler. The Cobbler will vote with the Wolves and we lose. If they kill the Hunter and the Hunter is hunting a wolf then we'll have a bit of a better chance.

If we don't get a wolf today and they just kill an Ordo tonight then tomorrow we'll be left with 3 Wolves, 1 Hunter, 1 Cobbler and 2 Ordos. Again though the Cobbler could vote with all 3 wolves and we'd lose (unless they lynch the Hunter, in which case he may take a wolf with him and we'd get another day).

Gah, my head hurts. Basically we need to get a wolf today, right?

Now back to Skip, again, I don't like this reveal at all. I'm very strongly against the Hunter revealing and I can't help but think that he's the Cobbler or Wolf trying to get the real Hunter to come out. The whole thing just doesn't sit right with me.

Let's say he's lying and the real Hunter comes out. Then we lynch Skip. If he's the Cobbler then they will kill some Ordo tonight (they won't risk going after the Hunter) and tomorrow we'd have 3 wolves, 1 Hunter and 3 Ordos. They could easily win that. If he's the wolf, well that would be actually a dumb thing for the wolves to do right now, so if Skip isn't the Hunter, he's the Cobbler, either way we shouldn't lynch him.

I don't know. I say leave him be and if he is lying the real Hunter should stay quiet, and then we just hope we get a wolf today.

x'ed with Nog and Boro, who are trusting Skip way to easily...

[Boromir88]

The problem though wilwa, is this is do or die day, where an unknown hunter could be far more harmful to the lynch today than a benefit to us at night. We need to worry about doing the job today in lynching a wolf, or in the very least the cobbler, or you can stick a phorc in us.

The situation calls that since we need, and I mean absolutely need, a baddie today there really is no choice but for the hunter to step out (which is also why it makes no sense for a wolf to make this reveal). Cobbler possibly. But if someone is actually the hunter, they absolutely 100% have to step out and say so now. We need a baddie and if Skip's not the hunter, this means he's one, and the real hunter has to step out and say so.

As it stands, Skip's been highly defensive all game, which usually to me says wolf or gifted. It could be that he's a wolf and knows today he could very easily be lynched, so might as well sacrifice and drag out the last gifted. However, I'm not sure why a wolf would do so right from the start. How many times has the 2nd leading vote getter from the previous day been basically forgotten the next? More than once. Maybe he is the cobbler, either way, if he's not the real hunter than the real hunter absolutely has to reveal now so we can take care of business today in lynching an evil Skipper.

However, I'm buying the reveal as it stands right now, because I completely understand his reasoning behind it. Yes, it means the wolves probably won't risk trying to kill him at night now (but what's the point of worrying about the night when we have to worry about lynching a wolf today?), but the situation is this desperate. Because of the desperation today, the hunter really has no other choice but to reveal, and since Skip was nearly lynched yesterday, not wanting to waste our time acquiring suspicions nad votes today, it's really understandable.

[wilwarin538]

But Boro, I know we need to focus on toDay, but we also have to think about what will happen later on if we make a mistake today.

If he's actually the Cobbler and not the Hunter, and the real Hunter comes forward and then we lynch Skip, then tomorrow we will be left with 3 wolves, a Hunter and 3 Ordos. Only 1 of the 4 innocents need to vote differently then the other 3 and the Wolves can then latch on and win. Ya know how hard it'll be to get everyone to agree like that? Not impossible, but hard.

So if something goes wrong today our Hunter is still our secret weapon (unless it is in fact Skip), and could end up being the Night kill and could take a wolf down with them (whether we lynch one toDay or not). So no, I don't think they should come forward if Skip is lying. It would completely defeat the purpose of the Hunter, cause no one will want to kill them, and Skip would likely just end up being a Cobbler, when we could have gotten a Wolf toDay instead.

I say Hunter shut it, let's temporarily ignore Skip, and just try to get a Wolf. Then at least if we fail today we still have a chance at an advantage if our Hunter is still unknown (if it isn't Skip).

x'ed with Nog and Ozzy...

[Nogrod]

I skimmed through the last moments of yesterDay getting a feel of it but didn't start taking notes as yet as I'm going to be away for an hour. It's kind of chaotic to say the least.

But if someone is going to analyse the voting while I'm away, do put in the voting times and something about why people did what they did. The bare list doesn't tell us much and might even mislead at times. If none is going to do that, I'll do it as I come back.

And like I said in my earlier post: please, let's not do the voting that way again.

EDIT: X'd with Boro who speaks sense.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

But, if I understand correctly, he wasn't hunting Legate. He was hunting you:

He said here he was really hunting Legate.

Originally Posted by skip spence

And yes, I am the Hunter. Felt I had to reveal and put the fear of death in Inziladun in order to save my own life over an unknown I believed could be a wolf (my pick was actually Legate *double-sigh*)

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

He said here he was really hunting Legate.

Ahhh. I hadn't noticed that.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Wilwa, I understand what you are saying and find you genuine, but I still believe that I made the right decision in revealing.

Well.....no, I don't think you did. Sorry, but I don't. And I don't trust you.

And I believe you just slipped up. Here:

Originally Posted by Skip

One thing you keep ignoring too is that if I die (whether lynched or night-killed) and make the mistake of hunting an innocent (and gawd, haven't I been making mistakes!) the wolves win there and then.

Cause if the Hunter gets Night killed while Hunting an innocent, only the Hunter dies.

So yeah. Definitely don't believe you now buddy.

[wilwarin538]

*headdesk*

Ignore that last part, I just realised what he actually meant there, and it's not what I thought. Sorry Skip.

But I still don't trust you.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Well.....no, I don't think you did. Sorry, but I don't. And I don't trust you.

Either way you try to break it down, we don't have the luxury to use the hunter to his greatest strength because of the situation we're in.

Earlier, yes, a revealed hunter means he most likely can't use his gift because the wolves would be wary to attack the known hunter. But today we need known innocents to make it to tomorrow. And even if we lynch a wolf today we're still going to be behind the 8-ball. The wolves will be in a jam to either keep the known hunter around or risk killing him at night. So, the notion that a revealed hunter is completely useless is a terrible one.

I revealed as the hunter in on of Nogrod's villages and kept daring them to kill me each night. They wouldn't, so they kept around a known innocent day after day, and then missed the opportunity to kill me when I didn't have a wolf picked. This notion that if Skip's the hunter he made a bad decision is completely false. In the best situations, yes we'd want the hunter to stay hidden, get picked by the wolves and take one down. We no longer have this luxury and a known hunter is still useful in giving us an innocent, as well as someone the wolves will be hardpressed to take the risk in killing. Because if we manage to kill a wolf today, we still got a mighty climb and if the wolves want to keep the known hunter around to help during the day, that still a bigger benefit to us than them.

I said why I understood his reasons and how it makes sense considering his actions so far. I'm going to trust that unless any one says they're the hunter. You think this makes him the cobbler. Do his actions at the lynch yesterday look Cobblerish? Would a cobbler really fight that hard to stay alive and be that defensive throughout when a cobbler who doesn't know who the wolves are, basic purpose would be to die at some point?

Edit: crossed with wilwa. Me need sleepy too, I've exhausted this debate over the hunter role. Ideally, yeah we'd want to keep the hunter unknown, but I firmly believe with how things have played out in this situation, a known hunter (despite now giving up his greatest gift) is still a larger benefit to us today, and in the following days, than to the wolves. I'll say no more about the best uses of roles.

[Nogrod]

Okay Skip, I tend to trust your reveal as it looks quite unlikely a wolf or even a cobbler would try that kind of a trick - at least I can't see any benefit in them doing it (correct me if I'm wrong). And I think it's good you did that because now we can narrow down our hunt with one person toDay.

I'm not so sure the wolves would be eager to get you lynched either. You are the only risk to them aside with lynches.

But speaking of numbers... you're quite right that we need a wolf toDay. Getting the cobbler would still give us a chance the next Day but even then it would just take one wrong vote and we'd be done. So a wolf rather than a cobbler.

The downside of your revelation: the wolves will not accidentally kiil you the coming Night so that you could have hunted one of them down with you.


Anyway. There is the added problem of them having three votes against our five - and then there is the cobbler with a vote as well. So even toDay they can arrange things if we give them the chance for it.

So please, let's not vote like the previous Days, at last minute and without declaring our intentions. They'd love to steer the voting toDay with last minute surprises...

EDIT: X'd with Boro

[Eönwë]

Well we pretty much need to get a Wolf toDay or we're practically defeated. Even if we do get the Cobbler toDay (or the wolves kill them by mistake toNight), they're still going to be 3 against 4, which means they only need two of us to vote differently and they've already got the vote tied. So we need to think hard about who we want to vote and vote together, toDay and toMorrow (whatever toDay's outcome).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay Skip, I tend to trust your reveal as it looks quite unlikely a wolf or even a cobbler would try that kind of a trick - at least I can't see any benefit in them doing it (correct me if I'm wrong). And I think it's good you did that because now we can narrow down our hunt with one person toDay.

I can actually see a very good reason for it. As a revealed Hunter, a wolf could avoid lynching and the question of why he wasn't Night-killed for at least a few Days, more than enough to win the game in this case. That said, I do believe skip, because, like Boro said, he has been acting quite like a possible gifted. And it is the time for the Hunter to step out, because having someone as a known innocent (And pretty much un-Night-killable) at this point is invaluable.

[skip spence]

First, a few additional comments on Greenie's case against me now that I've time to reply to them (I wrote this ahead of the DL), and then, well maybe simultaneously, I believe I'll return the favour and have a look at her too.

First of all, she suspects me for jumping on the bandwagon to lynch Shasta. I gave him his forth vote after having expressed the intention to vote for him much earlier. It seemed logical at the time.

But isn't it ironic, in the light of this accusation, that Green's record that Day is almost identical to mine?

First she singles Shasta out as her main suspect:

Originally Posted by Green

Shasta - Don't trust him at the moment. I'd love to hear from him before having to vote, but since he has already voted I doubt he'll return. I feel worse about him than about anyone else in the village, but then again I'm doubtful whether - just in principle - it is possible to catch a psychic Shastawolf on Day 1... In short, my head is exploding with scenarios and I'm sure it's unhealthy.

Then she votes him shortly after I did:

Originally Posted by Green

Not that it makes any difference now..

++ Shasta

Because of what I've said before, don't have the time or energy to repeat everything.

Then comes an accusation that I stirred up suspicion and left others to do the dirty work on Day 2, after I asked Lottie why she suspected Shasta in the first place (which I still find very odd) and raised the possibility that Pitch was a dreamed of wolf.

Originally Posted by Green

He "leaves things to discuss" while he's away. His demand of explanation from Lottie is reasonable, though could also be read as a wolf sniffing an easy lynch-candidate. Especially when coupled with the second "thing to discuss", Pitchie as Shasta's possible dream. Now there's nothing wrong with that, but what worries me is the same I pointed out in his Day 1 post of impressions: he is careful not to say he himself suspects somebody, but rather encourages others to

Well, first of all, when I wrote that post it was early Day 2 and bedtime, and as I work I knew I'd have no chance of participating again until the last couple of hours of that Day. What can I do but leave it for others to carry on?

Secondly, you agree that asking Lottie for an explanation was reasonable. And that Pitch potentially looked as a dreamed of wolf was universally agreed upon (even Pitch himself knew it looked bad for him, poor thing!) though I may have been one of the first to raise the possibility...

Now this strikes me as plain silly:

Originally Posted by Green

I'm wondering how come Legate is only beginning to look bad - considering that Skip found him bad enough yesterDay to vote over someone he himself had pointed out as a possible Seer-dreamed wolf.

I said he is beginning to look bad. That doesn't mean that he, at that very moment, just started to look bad, and that he didn't minutes earlier. Like, if you observe a cyclist on the Tour de France, you don't describe him as beginning to look tired, the first instance he grins badly. You say that when he's been showing signs of weariness for some time, perhaps losing a few metres on the peloton, apparently struggling to keep up... I was perfectly aware that I voted Legate the previous Day, and you, Miss Green, are splitting hairs!

Then she blames me for finding Inzil suspicious...

Originally Posted by skip

Have had a quick look at Inziladun too. Funny thing, when looking through his posts there's precious little that seem worth quoting. He, if anyone, has been threading very carefully. Not posting much, sort of poking around, now and then raising slight concerns about people without pressing it too hard..

Originally Posted by Green

This strikes me as slightly odd. To me it looks more or less like he's describing the usual Inzil, who's always careful and slippery regardless of role, and again, he's raising slight doubts without openly suspecting. Talking about treading carefully...

Once again a case of double standards... Remember, she herself accuses me of the very same thing that I accuse Inzil of, that is: raising slight doubts without openly accusing (though I'd argue that Inzil have been more careful than I have and making subtle distractions as well)...

And it's once again ironic how she first chides me for joining in on the bandwagon to lynch innocent Shasta (she did the same) and then for not joining the bandwagon to lynch innocent Pitch (once again, she did the same, voting me and not Pitch). Takes one to know one, one might argue...

I also find it odd that I apparently is the only one Greenie suspects based on this very brittle case, and with the personal knowledge that I am in fact innocent. Odd if we imagine a small and cute and honest Green, trying to save the hunters from this horrid dungeon. More understandable if she's a wolf smelling blood, becoming bolder, more aggressive and going for an easy lynch to finish us off once and for all. Then again, since I suspected Legate (and ended up voting him, arguably causing his death) and he turned out innocent, her aggressive attack on me could look unnecessary. Then again, she could have felt that Lottie risked getting lynched, and that attacking me was a good way of avoiding that. That makes a lot of sense actually: Lottie and Green as fellows.

In that 'it could be this it could be that or it could be something in between' post of hers, she actually defended Lottie in a subtle way, especially in light of Shasta's now proved innocence.

Notice how she downplays the a) scenario: a lupine Lottie attacking innocent Shasta...

a) Lottiewolf relying on "gut-feeling" to justify easy suspicion on an innocent Shasta. I don't find this that likely, though it's definitely a possibility. Lottie's tone is quite genuine, and if she's a wolf I'd be more inclined to think Shasta is one too (= option d)).
b) Innocent Lottie getting her famous gut-feeling on a Shastawolf. Definitely possible.
c) Innocent Lottie getting her famous gut-feeling on an innocent Shasta. Definitely possible.
d) Lottiewolf and Shastawolf mess around with a neat Day 1 wolf-on-wolf show. Certainly wouldn't put it past the two of them.

[Ozban]

I feel really bad, I blame myself for the Legate's death. Now there are nine of us left, four of that Bad-guys. We really are screwed.

Let's go all out: there's not much option left, is there? I got nothing to lose anyway, everything i did was wrong so far. And this is the only day to save the game.

During yesterDay my opinion on Legate has risen significantly. I was able to belive, that he was innocent. It was my personal-180, can't list any specific reasons, but just the change in his style caught my attention and than I reconsidered.
In that moment I started looking for wolves elsewhere, Skip being my first new choice.
After first votes were cast I was convinced that Skip's fate is sealed and evethough I deemed him a wolf, I opted not to join the wagon. My reasons were:

a) I seemed obvious that he'll be lynched even without my contribution.
b) I wanted to lay low, not to draw much attention from hairy side.
c) And finally, as I was convinced of Skip's furriness, I wanted to give puppies a tempting offer whom to vote, to try to save their comrade. I wanted to lure them to a "trap", having them to reveal their desire to save Skip. Skip cast vote for Legate right after and that sealed my suspicion of him.

Things turned out different, unfortunately. And what shocked me most was Inzil's vote. Last moment Skip-saviour. That stroke me as wolf pulling wolf out of the trouble at the last moment. Until reading skip's toDay's post I was convinced that they are wolves together, not knowing who the third is wasn't of much importance, eventhough I had few candidates.

Now I realize that my plan was naive at best, I did not consider Skip's eventual innocence. He must not be necesarily innocent though, his hunter-claim is hardly a proof. And my theory can still apply, I'm not that sure about it anymore, though.

I know this what i described can look false, It's a fragile construction, I realize that. Furthermore I got no proof on the matter, but please, consider it at least.

If someone can bring any light as to Skip's innocence/guilt, please do.

Damn It!! My head's gonna explode. That is, unless I drown in my pesonal sea of shame.

X'ed since #306. Will catch up to it now.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by skip spence

And yes, I am the Hunter. Felt I had to reveal and put the fear of death in Inziladun in order to save my own life over an unknown I believed could be a wolf (my pick was actually Legate *double-sigh*)

I understand someone wanting to save himself. After all, that's why I voted Legate, despite having no real idea that he might be a wolf.
It makes sense that if you saw an opportunity to get your hunt-target lynched instead of you having to die too, you'd want the first option.
I would say that if skip is somehow not the real Hunter, xe should remain quiet for the best chance of getting a wolf. I'd very much hate to lynch the Hunter, though, since xir target dies regardless of alignment of xe is lynched.
That is to say, I agree with Wilwa.

Originally Posted by Ozban

After first votes were cast I was convinced that Skip's fate is sealed and evethough I deemed him a wolf, I opted not to join the wagon. My reasons were:

a) I seemed obvious that he'll be lynched even without my contribution.
b) I wanted to lay low, not to draw much attention from hairy side.
c) And finally, as I was convinced of Skip's furriness, I wanted to give puppies a tempting offer whom to vote, to try to save their comrade. I wanted to lure them to a "trap", having them to reveal their desire to save Skip. Skip cast vote for Legate right after and that sealed my suspicion of him.

When you cast your vote for Legate, skip only had three votes. You thought his "fate was sealed" with that?

x/d with skip

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

It makes sense that if you saw an opportunity to get your hunt-target lynched instead of you having to die too, you'd want the first option.

But, if I understand correctly, he wasn't hunting Legate. He was hunting you:

And Inzil, you have good reasons not to vote me regardless of your role!

EDIT: xed with Skip, who (I think) cleared that up

[Ozban]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

When you cast your vote for Legate, skip only had three votes. You thought his "fate was sealed" with that?
[/B]

It was three against one and public opinion was favoring Skip as the beast, as I said, I was being naive. But I was so certain of my reasoning at that moment, not so much now.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I still think it'd be insanely awesome/awful if Ozzy was a wolf.

Agreed, I would be going to win. Not any such luck though.

[Loslote]

I won't be here long, just popping in briefly.

Skip rubs me the wrong way. Not in the way where I think he's a wolf, because I don't, but...gah. I just think there's something off about threatening to Hunt someone in order to save your own life - especially when it ends up with us killing an ordo. If he hadn't, and had died, he might have managed to take a wolf with him. Actually, I really don't know why a Hunter would be so adverse to dying. It's the point of the role. But Vanilwuffin makes sense, so I'd agree with her that we should not lynch skip.

Also, by process of elimination, the wolf pack I came up with is Nog, Boro, and Steve. But I don't think that's right, so I must be wrong about some of the people I semi-trust, which means I have to look really closely at Greenie, Ozzy, Vanilwuffin, and Zil. Greenie I'm least sure about, and could very well be a wolf, I just don't currently think she is. I still think it'd be insanely awesome/awful if Ozzy was a wolf. Zil I could easily be wrong in trusting. Easily. Vanilwuffin I'm pretty confident about, but I'll look at her anyway if I get a chance.

Also, may I go head-desk for a while? I may? Wonderful...

EDIT: xed with Skip and Zil

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Ozban

And what shocked me most was Inzil's vote. Last moment Skip-saviour. That stroke me as wolf pulling wolf out of the trouble at the last moment. Until reading skip's toDay's post I was convinced that they are wolves together, not knowing who the third is wasn't of much importance, eventhough I had few candidates.

Leaving your rather dodgy post aside for now I can comment on this. I believe the reason Inzil voted Legate was because I strongly suggested that he'd die if I did (ie that I was the hunter hunting him). That semi-bluff was my last desperate attempt to stay alive and (as I hoped) lynching a wolfish Legate.

[skip spence]

I should point out that Inzil's last ditch vote says nothing about his allegiances, as far as I'm concerned. It made as much sense for an innocent Inzil as it would for a wolfish or cobblerish Inzil.

[wilwarin538]

I read through yesterDay again since I had spent most of the little time I had on looking over the previous two days, and this stood out to me, I don't know why I didn't notice it before (he's talking about myself in this post)

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But I agreed with her about Pitch yesterday, and despite what Nog said earlier today, she never wavered. A wolf could push for the easy lynch, but I thought of her yesterday as more cobbler than anything else. I would have expected the cobbler to waver and be unsure on how to deal with Pitch.

Why it doesn't make sense: he says I never wavered about Pitch, then says I looked more cobblerish, and then says he'd expect the cobbler to waver. Hmm?

Anyway, there are many that I have no opinion about for one reason or another: Inzil, Steve, Greenie. I still get good vibes from Ozzy....and Boro, Nog and Lottie just greatly worry me. And I think Skip is the Cobbler, cause I don't trust his reveal, but I won't be voting him cause I want to get a wolf.

Basically I have no idea and I won't be around much tomorrow, I'll probably even need to vote really early, and that's bugging me. I don't have time to look more closely, so I'll likely base my vote on the analyses I did on everything yesterDay and then whatever happens today.

x'ed with Noggins