Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[Nerwen]

I just want to revisit the Seer-question, because I don't think my first response quite covered the amount of sheer nonsense in that one post:

Originally Posted by the phantom

Nerwen- your constant desire to talk about whether or not I'm really the Seer is really... um... weird.

If I'm faking it, then obviously you should let me fake it and let the SoE believe it and kill me while the Seer continues to hide. If I'm not faking it, why in the world would you keep pestering me about it, almost as if hoping that I'll give away that it's a double bluff? Your focus on this serves no positive purpose whatsoever.

If you're an innocent faking it– though for the life of me I don't know why– the harm I'd do by getting you to admit it is minimal. Oh, look, the wolves get to cross one, highly unlikely person off the "Possible Seers" list. On Day Two in a large village. What a disaster.

If you were the Seer double-bluffing, clearly I'd be doing the village a service by convincing the wolves it wasn't so. Also, if you were the Seer, why would you even suggest that you might be double-bluffing? You know, like you just did?

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm looking at the player list, and I don't see any noobs on it. Who would counter-reveal in a situation like this?

If you claim there is no real risk of a fake-reveal flushing gifteds out... well, then, obviously you haven't played many games of wer– oh, wait, you have.

Or do you say that your reveal was so obviously fake that the real Seer would know you couldn't be a baddie, and must be on the village's side. Then why did you make it?

Originally Posted by the phantom

I mean, I'm not being the least bit destructive with my claim. I mean, heck, I'm not even demanding that you follow me or vote like me etc. I haven't repeated my claim since the day started either. Seriously, it's like you're begging for me to say too much or commit one way or the other, which a true Orc would know would serve no good purpose at all.

You are REALLY making me suspicious at this point.

You revealed. There seems no good reason for it. That's enough. You were bound to be questioned over it, and you must have known this. You do have a nerve, mate!

EDIT:X'd since my last post.

[Nerwen]

*sigh*

Phantom, your latest post is just more of the same. I don't have anything to say to it that I didn't in my last one (that x-posted with yours). Except about the Lottie business. Yeah, you were all over the place about Lottie and Sally and what you were doing and what you thought they were doing yesterDay. Steve has already pointed out the timing-problem with your explanation that you were just trying to catch an Elf.

Been there, done that.

EDIT: name left out.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

If you're an innocent faking it– though for the life of me I don't know why–

So the SoE would kill me, duh. I mean, come on. Why else fake it?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh, look, the wolves get to cross one, highly unlikely person off the "Possible Seers" list. On Day Two in a large village. What a disaster.

It IS a disaster!! After yesterday I had the possible Seers narrowed down to FOUR (Izzy was not one, btw). I imagine by the end of today I'll be able to cross off at least two more. Narrowing it down by one is a HUGE deal! I mean, what if it's narrowed down to two people- the real one and a fake one? That ONE extra person makes a massive difference!

Am I the only one taking the Seer seriously?! We only have ONE gifted! We should all be doing whatever we can to make it muddy for Seer-hunters, and what you've done today has not helped! I mean, at this point they have to pretty well know that it's not me, which absolutely sucks, because I was hoping to be night-killed! This is cutting into my sleep time and work time etc and I was hoping hoping to die early, but I hugely preferred to be night-killed as at least that would actually serve a purpose and help my side.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

If you claim there is no real risk of a fake-reveal flushing gifteds out... well, then, obviously you haven't played many games of wer– oh, wait, you have.

It's all in the manner in which it is done, m'dear, and who else is in the village. I mean, can you imagine any one of the players here counter-revealing on Day 2 due to a throwaway comment at the end of Day 1 by a notoriously crazy player? Your fear of a counter-reveal is downright insane, and insulting to the intelligence of the remaining villagers. If I had any fear whatsoever of a counter-reveal, I wouldn't have done it.

Coming into today I actually didn't plan to so much as mention my final post from yesterday. I assumed most everyone would write it off except for perhaps, hopefully, the SoE. The last thing I expected was to have a couple people immediately jump up and down and point it out, because as I said earlier, doing so serves NO POSITIVE PURPOSE! I mean- what can bringing it up possibly accomplish? That is why I'm very suspicious of anyone harping on the point, but perhaps it is my mistake to assume that everyone else would think this matter through so carefully, as they are on the outside looking in so to say.

Yeesh. This feels like a repeat of the last Rep game.

This is the way I assumed rational people would look at what I did-

1) If Phantom's an Orc, then his purpose is obvious and the best reaction to it would be not to ask questions about it and let him do his thing.
2) If Phantom is the Seer, then his purpose is obvious and the best reaction to it would be not to ask questions about it and let him do his thing.
3) If Phantom is a SoE, I can only assume he's trying to pass himself off as a self-sacrificing Orc, or paving the way for a future reveal. The best reaction would be to watch and wait to see what he does. I might want to question him about it, but given the odds are higher that it's one of the first two options the overall best bet would be to keep my mouth shut.

I mean, you do realize that the only reason we're talking about this is because you people won't let it go? It's an entirely useless discussion to have even started, and it's especially useless now that I've basically admitted I was totally faking it.

[Nerwen]

Phantom–

Yes, we only have one gifted. Therefore you, if innocent, had no business taking that risk. The rest is nothing.

Stop acting like you're some kind of special super-Orc whose actions should be above question. It is entirely normal and logical that I've been asking you about this, and don't think you're going to bluster your way out of it.

As for what you are– Morgoth only knows! Your performance toDay doesn't make that much sense for an experienced player in any role. However, I'm inclining more and more towards "guilty". (And, in that case, likely Sally's partner.)

If not, you're certainly not helping your side, the way you're acting. Can't you see that?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes, we only have one gifted. Therefore you, if innocent, had no business taking that risk. The rest is nothing.

WHAT RISK??!!

The risk I would be killed in place of the Seer? I mean... what?

And don't even say, "Er, the Seer might've counter-revealed" because that would assume that the true Seer is an idiot. I've done several fake reveals in the past, and NEVER has one of them resulted in a counter-reveal. Why? Because I knew the situation and who I was playing with.

I say again- thinking that a throwaway Day 1 comment by a crazy bugger like me would prompt a reactionary reveal by our Seer is to think that your fellow villagers are idiots. You cannot justify your claim by saying, "There've been counters in other games!" This is me, in this game, with these people, at this precise moment. With me, in this village, at that time, there was not going to be a counter-reveal. End of story. I can't believe I'm even having to explain it.

It is entirely normal and logical that I've been asking you about this, and don't think you're going to bluster your way out of it.

It's only "normal and logical" in the sense that you are curious and want to know. Of course we're curious about each other's purposes and roles. But wondering about something doesn't mean that it is in the best interest of your team to wonder about it openly!

Have you still not grasped that your questioning of me was bound to from the very start yield nothing useful whatsoever? I mean- you've still never responded to this point that I've made again and again- the fact that from the start there was no point to you asking these questions. No matter what my role or motivation, talking about this gets us nowhere.

As for what you are– Morgoth only knows! Your performance toDay doesn't make that much sense for an experienced player in any role.

I've only had to give a performance today because YOU have chosen to travel down this pointless road.

If you want to take a look at how you should've done this thing, look at Inzil. Though I'm not completely happy that he even brought it up, he simply asked his questions and moved on, either because he gained what he wanted or because he knew that continuing to talk about it was without purpose. No additional info would be gained, and no help to the village would result.

You said yourself in your first post on the matter that my comment was obviously complete bunk, so tell me why have you insisted on filling up an entire page based upon a complete and total throwaway comment? This is a waste of everyone's time. Seriously, all you people reading this- I'm sorry these minutes of your life have been flushed down the drain.

[the phantom]

Okay, I really would like to sleep now. *yawns*

Nerwen- if you're an Orc then you seriously need to stop. Take a step back and just look at what I said and when I said it. My move was not at all risky and the motivation is obvious if I'm innocent, thus the act says nothing whatsoever as to my guilt/innocence. It is simply a matter of what you believe already.

If you think I'm guilty then you have to make your own explanation for why I did what I did.
If you think I'm innocent then you accept that I was trying to make myself a target, particularly since you know it is something I do regularly in other games. I mean- frankly I'd be suspicious of a non-gifted Phantom that didn't try to get himself night-killed. I LOVE being Wolf-killed as an Ordo.

It's one or the other. Either I'm good or bad. If I may be permitted to say so, if anything the act itself points to good since it's something good-Phantom does often for a known reason, where as I've never done so as a baddie and who knows what my purpose would be? But anyway, all you're managing to do is tick me off. If I don't sleep well tonight then don't be surprised if I'm in all caps insulting mode when I come in tomorrow.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Have you still not grasped that your questioning of me was bound to from the very start yield nothing useful whatsoever? I mean- you've still never responded to this point that I've made again and again- the fact that from the start there was no point to you asking these questions. No matter what my role or motivation, talking about this gets us nowhere.

Phantom, I don't know what you're doing, but I'm trying to hunt Elves. Therefore, following up odd behaviour has a point.

Originally Posted by the phantom

I've only had to give a performance today because YOU have chosen to travel down this pointless road.

Read back over what you've said and what I've said. *sigh* I'm getting very tired of this myself, actually. It's starting to look like you're never going to give me a satisfactory answer, just it-was-all-part-of-my-plan-and-now-you've-spoiled-everything.

Really. If you're a true Orc, try and think about how this all looks to another innocent.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I'd like to look at the timing of his Seer reveal - because now it had occured to me that if he was a Wolf, acting boldly, and then suddenly one of his teammates was about to be lynched, his boldness suddenly meant another possible threat to the WWs' team, so maybe he could try even more ridiculous move to save his skin by revealing as a Seer? If you know what I mean. But I think that would make more sense only if he revealed after it was clear that Lottie goes.

This is a very good point. He posted that after he knew that Lottie was lynched. And knowing the phantom, a stunt like that wouldn't be too unlikely if he felt in danger.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Also I should probably mention that even though I would love to receive a mandate from the masses, today is not a good day for me to be a representative. . . Unless you want a representative who show up drunk and makes a more or less random vote.

That seems about right.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Well the way Lottielf voted for Phantom so early in the Day it almost seems like something she would have talked to the other SoE about during the Night, so for another SoE to also do it just seems strange. Also if Sally is an elf and voted like that, I don't know why her fellow elf would come on and vote the same right after, they must have known that would draw way too much attention to themselves, and I don't see them doing that. Like I said though, it doesn't make me feel fantastic about Sally, but I would still be a little surprised if she turned out to be an Elf.

They may have thought it would be a great way to deflect suspicion. It's so obviously suspicious that maybe the hoped that no-one would vote for them. Of course, if that was their plan, it failed miserably, but with one dying it would make the other seem less suspicious, which is why I think we definitely shouldn't cross Sally off the "Suspicious" list.