Okay, so what do you think NOW?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

Though I liked the films when they were released, and had fun at line parties and Trilogy Tuesday, subsequent watching burned me out on them. I went to see Fellowship about 8 times, and Two Towers 5 times, but Return of the King twice. Likewise, I watched the extended DVDs only a few times, with me usually falling asleep during them. They now collect dust on the DVD shelf.

This sounds painfully familiar, though I eschewed Trilogy Tuesday and have thrown out some of the DVDs. What collects dust on my shelf is an unopened, still in the wrapper CD of the RotK soundtrack. My original reactions to the films were clearly trackable by the number of times I was willing to spend money to see them, which if I'm remembering right was about the same as Snowdog's. I was willing to overlook most of the flaws in Jackson's FotR at first because that was the film that stuck most closely to the spirit of the books — and I was holding to the hope that, since there was time, things might get better (like, maybe he would give us a good reason for why he felt Aragorn needed to be a spineless ne'er-do-well). They didn't, and with my hope went my respect for the whole thing. It looked good, sometimes it sounded good, but Jackson increasingly showed that the heart he had designed for it was one of cold cash. A lot of RotK plain didn't make sense from any other standpoint. He'd tossed out Tolkien's books by that point and was winging it to appeal to the commercial audiences that would ring up profits and awards. My interest in the films deteriorated so quickly after those initial viewings, I sat in a TORn chartroom on Oscar night actively rooting for RotK to lose. Didn't do any good, alas. This as well as my editorials on the subject indicate my feelings on the matter.

Now, when I see the films in the TV listings, I might look in to see where they are, but only if it's either FotR or in the early parts of TTT (or close to the very end. I like the looks of the "cavalry comes at dawn" scene). I ignore RotK completely. I never listen to the soundtracks anymore. But my love for the books has never waned. In fact, if it hadn't been for the films, I might never have plowed through a couple of the HoME books. Shows how desperate I was for the Real Thing to wash the gunk of Jackson out of my brain. I wistfully wish that someone would do a decent remake, but I fear it won't happen in my lifetime.

Ah, well.

[skip spence]

Don't believe I think any differently about the movies now than I did back then. When FotR came out I went to see it twice in the theatres and loved it. Just the other day I watched the first half of the EE again curled up with some hot tea and a blanket nursing a cold. The novelty's gone now but I enjoyed it (especially the first part in the Shire) although I didn't have the patience to sit it through this time. But I never really watch films repeatedly anyway, hardly even once these days. However, I still think PJ did an excellent job with the first film. It was much, much better than what I had expected beforehand.

I liked TTT also, but to a lesser degree. I don't really have anything principally against the plot changes that were made and for me they often made the experience of watching the films for the first time more enjoyable because with them there was a sense of not knowing what's next, something that would be missing if the films were completely faithful to the books. Some changes did make me cringe, others were rather enjoyable. Examples of things I didn't mind are the Elves at Helm's deep, Arwens extended role, Pip and Merry and even Gimli as comical side-kicks... (though some Gimi-jokes were horrible, granted...)

By the time RotK came out the novelty of Lord Of the Rings-films had worn out for me and I didn't even bother to go and watch it in the theatres. Didn't like the looks of it in trailers and to be honest, I don't think I've watched it in its entirety even once, although I have seen all of the the movie-version in different sittings. And I didn't care much for it. Too loud and stupid and obvious.

Another reason I liked the first film best and the last film worst could be that my preference with the books is the same. I have read FotR more then ten times surely and always enjoy it immensely. RotK maybe only three times and with less enjoyment (though I do like it). TTT maybe five or six times and I adore some chapters in this one but care less for others.

[alatar]

LotR is like that friend* of convenience that is no longer convenient. You know, that friendship that came about because you and the other person cohabited a particular time-space moment. You were in the same class at school, and when the semester ended, so did the relationship. You worked together in the same office, played on the same sports team, etc.

It was the circumstances that held you together; when it dissolved, so did the bond.

That's how I can best explain my feelings towards LotR.

*Note that I use the word 'friend' loosely here. My personal definition of the word friend is one who, upon receiving your Red Arrow, jumps on his/her horse and starts riding to your aid at that very moment.

[Mister Underhill]

Do you think it has anything to do with having gone over them with a fine-tooth comb for the SbS and beyond? You know, like maybe over-familiarity breeds contempt?

I haven't watched the films in a long time either. I used to be a big re-watcher of movies, but lately when I have precious movie time (i.e., no babbling little hobbit about), I find that I usually crave something that I haven't seen yet.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Do you think it has anything to do with having gone over them with a fine-tooth comb for the SbS and beyond? You know, like maybe over-familiarity breeds contempt?

If you know me, you know that I have contempt for everything...

But it's funny, when now and then I've gone back to read some of the SbS posts, it takes a moment to realize that that was *me* writing those! I have almost no recollection of working on that project (that was a blurry time with new and little children, living in a zombie stupor from one moment to the next).

So I don't think that that's it. It's the only movie (trilogy) for which I've done anything like the SbS, and there's other movies that are friends of convenience, so...

I haven't watched the films in a long time either. I used to be a big re-watcher of movies, but lately when I have precious movie time (i.e., no babbling little hobbit about), I find that I usually crave something that I haven't seen yet.

With so many little hobbits about, practically *everything* is something we haven't seen yet (or remember seeing).

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by alatar

If you know me, you know that I have contempt for everything...

But it's funny, when now and then I've gone back to read some of the SbS posts, it takes a moment to realize that that was *me* writing those! I have almost no recollection of working on that project (that was a blurry time with new and little children, living in a zombie stupor from one moment to the next).

I can certainly relate to the zombie stupor. And you have, what, four? My hat is off to you, sir.

Originally Posted by alatar

So I don't think that that's it. It's the only movie (trilogy) for which I've done anything like the SbS, and there's other movies that are friends of convenience, so...

This discussion has me reflecting on what it is about the movies that I like to re-watch that draws me back to them, and I find that, for me, it usually has to do with the writers and the actors connecting for a performance that is just joyful, even if the text and the content of the performance isn't exactly joyful. Take Glengarry Glenross. I don't know if you've seen it, but the whole time Alec Baldwin is on screen, you can feel him feeling his oats, just sinking his teeth into the part of a lifetime, and even though his character is absolutely vile, you feel like cheering when his one lone scene is over. I should add a note of caution to any who would consider that a recommendation -- the film is about the petty intrigues and tribulations of a bunch of real-estate salesmen and they say the eff word about five hundred times. But still. That cast. The writing. And that scene. I could name so many others, but I'll spare you.

With LotR, for me, out of the principal cast, the only one who really connects on that level with any consistency is Ian McKellen, and there aren't enough just pure and simple great scenes to make me want to watch and re-watch it.

Originally Posted by alatar

With so many little hobbits about, practically *everything* is something we haven't seen yet (or remember seeing).

The memory is the first thing to... something something.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

This discussion has me reflecting on what it is about the movies that I like to re-watch that draws me back to them, and I find that, for me, it usually has to do with the writers and the actors connecting for a performance that is just joyful, even if the text and the content of the performance isn't exactly joyful. Take [I]Glengarry Glenross...

Glengarry Glenross is a great movie with a wonderful ensemble cast, and I know exactly what you mean about the actors sinking their teeth into a great script. I get the same reaction from movies like The Lion in Winter, where the dialogue between Peter O'Toole and Katherine Hepburn is absolutely electric.

But as far as LotR, you hit the orc right on the helmet, Mr. U. The cinematography, the effects and overall look of the film is dazzling, but the script suffers greatly. There are only brief flashes of good dialogue.

[Galadriel]

Nerwen,

I think I make too many sweeping statements, forgive me. I have a tendency to do that. Perhaps it is safest to say I was both happy and disappointed with the films. I was happy because the costumes were great and the music just fit perfectly with ME. Not to mention the fact that it got many more people to read the book. However, I still feel that the movies were not faithful to the main effect of Lord of the Rings. It is simply an opinion, though I daresay many agree.