Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That would be the assumption that he's the best man for the job, yes?

No, I was in fact refering to the assumption that he's an orc. Since he can make that assumption, he can logically draw the conclusion that Sally, Mira, and I voted for an orc. No one else can make that assumption, so the fact that the rest of the village doesn't accept his logic does not mean that it is not logical.

Also, Lottie, why aren't you worried by phantom's promise not to lynch those who voted for him?

1. That promise was made after I voted.

2. Well, it's pretty obvious that a representative isn't likely to vote for the people they represent. It's sort of counter-productive for those who want to remain in power rather than being mistrusted by the voters for the rest of the game, isn't it?

EDIT: xed with The Puddingtom

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Phantom

For the 10th time- Lottie and Sally knew just as much as you when they voted.

Not true. Folwren had several pages of discussion to read through and form opinions before she voted, I believe, information that Lottie and Sally certainly did not have when they voted.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

No, I was in fact refering to the assumption that he's an orc. Since he can make that assumption, he can logically draw the conclusion that Sally, Mira, and I voted for an orc. No one else can make that assumption, so the fact that the rest of the village doesn't accept his logic does not mean that it is not logical.

No, but the logic doesn't go very far, does it?

Originally Posted by Loslote

1. That promise was made after I voted.

I know, but you specifically mentioned that it didn't bother you– that's what I was asking about not, "why did you vote him?"

Originally Posted by Loslote

2. Well, it's pretty obvious that a representative isn't likely to vote for the people they represent. It's sort of counter-productive for those who want to remain in power rather than being mistrusted by the voters for the rest of the game, isn't it?

Yes, but isn't promising not to vote the people one represents counter-productive for those who want to hunt wolves– er, I mean, Elves?

True, I won't be voting Greenie or Legate just for a default–lynch. But if either of them starts looking distinctly Elvish, that's a different matter.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Me

For the 10th time- Lottie and Sally knew just as much as you when they voted.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Not true. Folwren had several pages of discussion to read through and form opinions before she voted, I believe, information that Lottie and Sally certainly did not have when they voted.

Your response has nothing to do with my statement. I did not say L & S had the same number of posts to read over when they voted, but rather that they knew the same exact amount when they voted. Actual knowledge. Something you can bank on. Reading through five pages of "I don't like those early votes!" and "I don't like Phantom!" and "You're wrong!" and "Let's not split votes!" does not qualify as gaining actual real knowledge. You can try and form a hunch based upon such things, but that is all.

Meh- I want to say something to you, but I really shouldn't. Just... read everything I've said today, and consider it from all angles and think what sorts of things an orc-Phantom would want to accomplish and how things I have done might fit in line with those goals. Let me know if it falls into place.

[the phantom]

All right, extremely tired. *yawn* I'll be around most of tomorrow.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, so it's done for the first Day - the Reps have been chosen. Now I am really, really curious as to what they are going to do with their newly acquired power. Speaking of that, I think it would be very nice if the Reps wrote, if only in a few words, whether they have some basic ideas on whom they would vote and so on (if they do), just so that we, the common folk, are not entirely left out of the game of the mighty. That said, in any case, I would like to urge the "common folk" to continue participating as much as we can, even continue toDay as if it was a normal Day and we ourselves were supposed to vote - I think that way, the extended 48-hour Day's full potential can be used.

Just a few notes to the ongoing phantom debate. I think I am beginning to partially see phantom's point of view, at least to a certain extent - at least, I know it is true that he considers Day 1s just random rubbish, and I can see the inner logic in what he says. Of course, he would behave like this whether he is innocent or not (and I disagree with him on several matters - like the argument with the probability of electing an innocent randomly; statistics, in my experience never work). The more I am actually interested in how he plans to use his votes, of which he now has several. And, that said, I am not really so keen on lynching him already on Day 1 just because he is the phantom. Unless he manages to lynch our Seer or something like that, which is not very probable, he won't be that dangerous even in his position. I mean, I there's been a bit of unnecessary demonisation of him. Let us just look at him as at one of our Reps, and judge him based on his actions.

I have to go now, but will hopefully pop in during the Day in several hours and then I will be back late in the evening (also metaphorically, time-wise: close to the DL). But meanwhile, keep it up, ye who be around...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Just letting you guys know that I am around, but it will probably take me a very long time to look through todays posts and comment on them.

[Isabellkya]

Originally Posted by Rune

In my humble opinion it is downright silly to make a "rule" that say only two votes per representative. You should vote for the person you find fit for the job and not some half-random person whos only merits is that they don't have two votes yet. . Not only does it provide excellent cover for SoE, but more importantly it is no fun.

I want political intrigue, I want representatives who abuse power and then get brutally punished come next election time. . . or more realistic, gets re-elected.

In my ideal world we would have one person with something like 49% of the votes, so that the rest of the representatives where forced to work together in order to get any influence. Then we would have dynamic system, with lots of negotiating and stuff to analyse. . .

Isn't this the same as the 'two votes per Rep' suggestion? Trying to make a rule in terms of how you vote for your Representative? Because you would need to have one, for a single person to get that much sway. I don't like this idea, because it in no way forces that player with that much power, to work for the better good. Their only consequence would be what? Lynched the next Day for acting poorly with votes? But that would be further detriment to the Cave.

I do agree, that we should all be voting for who we think would do a good job; but who we think is an Orc first. Because an Elf could do a splendid job, but that is counterproductive.

But I have no clue about the alignment of my rep either (Cel). And you don't know what your rep's alignment is. And when it comes to hunches, we have zero kills and lynches to help us decide and haven't reached a stopping point (night) where we can go back and reread the day's action.

I never claimed that I knew for certain the alignment of who I voted for. However, I did give it thought - which is a difference between the votes. If people were unable to get information from other players in regards to their alignment, then what exactly is the point of having a Day phase? Hmm? You seem to think that information relies solely on what occurs during Night. Which is ridiculously .. flawed and lazy. Your entire stance is rather odd, and it definitely shows you are up to something - but when aren't you. It also seems like you are faking here, and I question how it is productive and good for the Cave.

Oh come on, you walked straight into a point I made earlier- the fact that other votes have merely been, as you stated, a reaction or counter to the first votes! Basically, you're basing your actions upon something that you say shouldn't have happened in the first place, which means that had everyone followed your advice and not jumped the gun, you wouldn't have had any reason to vote later yourself, thus proving me correct when it comes to how incredibly flimsy our day 1 rep voting is going to be.

I said my vote in particular. I didn't vote solely on the thought of trying to counter what you and your lackeys tried doing. I also thought of alignment, and who I thought was a possible Orc. Again, a rather large difference.


I think the phorc/Loslote/Sally triangle needs to be figured out at one point or another, otherwise it will continue to vie for attention.


Currently wouldn't vote for:
Folwren
Lommy
Nog
Shasta
Wilwa
Dun
Mira

Every one else is pretty iffy, or no read. I have Mira up there because I think she was in a 'no time, must vote' state of mind.

[Thinlómien]

Feeling tired and lazy. Shall go through the posting more or less (probably "less") carefully and then vote.

Un-reps, who would you like to see lynched toDay?

[Thinlómien]

Wait...

Lottie #9

This makes sense, and looks rather innocent of you, but I'm going be around, so Phantom, no vote for you.



...yet.

tp #10

And Lottie, really, there is no need to delay. Every last villager is going to vote me as representative today, as it would entertain the mods as well as be historic and funny. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I received all the rep votes every day of the contest. If the Sons win then all the orcs can say, "That blasted Phantom didn't vote well and lost it for us! Let's make fun of him!" And that would be great fun, of course. Or if the Sons lose then all the orcs can say, "Ha- I chose my rep well, didn't I?" And that would be fun as well.

Lottie #14

Or, of course, you turn out to be evil and utterly destroy us all. And then we can all go "oh, that Phantom!" and we'd all be having a right good time!

tp #17 and #18

PS If you haven't voted me as your representative yet, please do so. Let's make history.

Well no, but I would have a good time, so it all balances out, yes? So yeah, um, vote for me. Vote for me now.

Need a second opinion? Let's ask Emperor Palpatine-

Emperor Palpatine: "Do it!"

Lottie #19

I'm honestly considering it...I won't be able to get online until an hour before DL, and I'll probably not have much time to catch up, much less form opinions, and it is Day 1, after all...you know what, fine.

++The Puddintom for Representative

What the???

Lottie, I've heard your resonings but this is plain weird. Is your mind really that easily turned?

Btw if I may discuss phantom I'd like to say that he'd just love his fellow wolves to vote him as rep because
1) then he gets power and he probably believes to be the most able to use it in the wolf team anyway
and
2) then he has a good excuse not to vote his fellows for a lynch because he hates doing that.
Makes me think that if phantom dies and is proved a wolf, I would really look at Lottie, Sally and Mira. (Just imagine if they would be our four wolves! That would be almost ingenious in its absurdity.)

Back to reread...

[Thinlómien]

Lottie is really very careless and confident in the beginning of Day1. Reminds me of a wolf who's happy with her pack and thinks they'll win... or a happy-happy orco. She also gives the impression that she is voting first and then coming up with reasons afterwards. Hmm... Wonder if I should change my mind about her.

I might also take my word back on not voting phantom. His frolicking really irks me... doesn't he really have more important stuff to say? Admittedly, he's been speaking more sense lately.

Legate's wishy-washiness sort of disturbs me but I think it's just his style and I always suspect him based on that to some extent or another. I think I also suspect Glirdan mostly based on his style as always.

I would put Nerwen and Zil to the same category - I like what they're saying but I don't really trust them. Shasta could almost be there too, but I both trust and distrust him more than the other two. Mostly because I'm imagining him laughing his wicked laugh behind the screen.

Kath should be here. I shouldn't be surprised she misses a Day1 but this one is twice as long as a normal one. (Ha! random non-native English speaker 'downer: "Kath, what do you call this kind of meat?" Kath: "Long." <3)

I'm trying to determine whether Nogrod seems (on second thought) suspiciously refrained - because of wolvishness or because of lack of internet access. Or both? Or neither? Anyway you get my point.

Folwren is smart and funny but I'm wondering if she's as innocent as she seems. There's something quite careful about the way she posts, which could indicate guilt. All in all there is some honest straightforwardness in her habit nonetheless, so I'm not too worried in the absence of further "proof".

Also wondering what to make of the large anti-phantom front (like, people opposing his thoughts and questioning his logic). It might be as simple as that many people saw the flaw in his (honest or schemical) argumentation.

Read the first 2 pages now and starting a new post for further points if there are any... see, I'm keeping the discussion active and learning to make shorter posts!


edit: xed with everybody - good, I'll read and reply before continuing the reread!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by phantom

I'm certainly doing it. I'm simply saying don't criticize others for not voting in the same manner as you on a day when it doesn't really make a difference.

It does. The End.

Originally Posted by phorc

This has been my entire point all along, Fol! You just said most people act flippantly on Day 1, and you also said that Day 1 joke votes are perfectly acceptable!

Unfortunately, Folwren is just one out of the many people who disagree with your point. I proudly disapprove of joke votes and random votes!

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think you Lommy see this, so why bother wailing on it?

Because I write on this thread about 90% of what I'm thinking during the game. Writing posts is an essential part of my thought process, and that's why I flip-flop so much. I am not too happy about SoE reps even though there are good sides to that too. Votes are not, after all, the only thing we can base our conclusions on.

Originally Posted by Kath

Ahem ... hi. Apologies for limited participation toDay. I will read and comment briefly but it won't be particularly in depth!

Hi! *waves*


xed with Steonve

[Thinlómien]

I like Eönwë's style except for how he keeps coming back to phantom.

Somehow my concentration is failing...

There really is something fishy in Celuien's manner. I think she is too calculationg and too captain obvious-ish.

Now I have reread up until the end of the first half of the Day. Currently feeling like voting Lottie, or possibly splitting to give one gut-feeling vote to Cel.


edit: xed with everyone

[Thinlómien]

Feeling a bit better about Izzy.

Hmm. That's apparenlty all I have to say about this latter half of toDay!

Shall think about these things but preferably going to sleep in 20 minutes...


edit: xed with Noggggg

[Nogrod]

Still have a half a pint left...

Of whom I didn't say anything?

Celuien
Glirdy
Greenie
Kath
Steve
Inzil

The list kind of talks for itself. Although it must be said that Inzil and also Steve have contributed quite nicely. It just seems I'm really bad at looking more closely on them on D1 and now I have no time for it. I need to step up on that in the future.

Celuien is pretty much odd this time around - is it her trying to play the phantom-fiddle or something else, I don't know. But is it discriminating? Hard to say.

Kath has said just hi and Greenie has been away most of toDay (even if her normally short contributions on the first part of the Day were reasonable as ever - whichever her role).

I have been a wolf with Glirdy a few times quite lately and then he was more or less desperate to reveal his fellow-wolves by praising them to high-heaven. Now I'm not getting that kind of overenthusiasm from him for anyone. But he might just have learned to be a bit more careful... or he's just a plain orc.

Actually I'm quite happy I don't need to vote toDay.

Good luck representatives! Give us an elf.

[Nogrod]

Hah. I finally got a place to sit and to plug my laptop into the mains...

So here's what little I managed to write down while being at home - with a few addenda skimming fast what has happened meanwhile...


Depending on the answer the phantom might have given to my questions (if he has), I’m pending my opinion whether to call for the “historical feat Fea would love so much” and lynch him on D1, or whether to give him a chance to show his qualities this time as well…

ADD: I'm probably not advicing anyone to lynch him but I might complain about his latest explanation anyway.


I think I see where you tp are coming from, but that doesn’t remove the fact that Sally’s vote was soo stupid. I will not vote for Sally for a representative in this game. I can’t let that kind of judgements decide on life and death issues – even if it was made on D1. Really. That’s a promise. Sorry Sally, but you're too reckless. Your try of turning the gaze on Shasta and Nerwen after your return was kind of pathetic – and don’t say you just joked.

I don’t mean playing werewolf should be a grave matter or that winning is important (actually I do prefer a good game lost to a lousy game won), but one should at least try to play by the rules – in their spirit, not only by the book. Light-heartedness can be fun and constructive at the same time. Now it feels Sally just tried to duck the fence from the lowest point to get through to the next Day by allying herself with tp who she knew would then talk on behalf of her if she flattered him enough…

Lottie seems to go to and fro in the beginning and her efforts of trying to cover tp (and her own choice) later have been eyebrow-raising to say the least. The basic problem here is that I know I normally end up suspecting Lottie when she’s innocent and so I’m wavering a bit here. But really, Lottie can’t defend tp for his arguments “containing no illogical jumps” (as she says in response to Foley). Actually this way of clinging to an explanation of her vote provided by the phantom in retrospect looks pretty fishy – whatever phantom’s role.

I do like Nerwen’s attitude but there are two little things you might say are irrelevant, but I find them disturbing enough: she calls those she decides to suspect “orclings” and the suggestion of someone signaling to others when she tried to suspect Lottie is quite odd indeed… like she tried just to add on top of some already existing general suspicions with no real basis…

ADD: Also her latest open suspicion on Mira is more like an easy throw away than anything she would have really contemplated on. I dislike Mira’s vote as well, but really, it looks like she just didn’t read the thread…

And then there’s this.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Maybe he means he can't be around?

Now this looks a bit odd indeed. Why to run on defence of Boro on such a minor point? I mean the wolves oftentimes feel the threats to be more major than they are (everyone who has been a wolf knows that) and thence they feel the need to defend themselves or their friends in situations where no specific “defence” is needed (see the “confused” smilie there).

Originally Posted by Lommy

Then to the rep choices... I kind of like them, but I have a feeling there's at least one if not two SoE among them simply because so many people I think innocent are NOT among the reps.

Interesting point from Lommy. I do belong to those people who think we can lynch a villain on D1 in a normal game, and that those who diss D1’s are more often than not villains themselves (villains love randomness – or talking about the randomness of D1 - as it leaves no trace to them), but in this kind of a game I think it would turn out actually good to see one or two enemies on the lines of the representatives on D1. Maybe even toMorrow. Whatever. The point is we should choose also the enemies as representatives on D1 and not only those leaning on the success of the village: that’s the best way to put them into danger. On D1 – and possibly on D2 – probably not much later in the game.

Remember the first things we can read in any way are the choices of the representatives. If all the reps are innocents, and an innocent is lynched, we’re quite easily led to concentrate only on innocents toMorrow. Therefore at this point (at this point, mind you) we need some SoE’s for representatives. I think you Lommy see this, so why bother wailing on it?

ADD:

Originally Posted by Boro

I'm not going to lobby for anyone's lynching when I aint got a clue.

Being a bit too modest or withholding something are you? Really. This just doesn't make sense. And let's not argue about the meaning of the term "lobbying".

EDIT: X'd with Lommy & phantom

[Kath]

Ahem ... hi. Apologies for limited participation toDay. I will read and comment briefly but it won't be particularly in depth!

[Nogrod]

Great udders of relief! Kath is here, naturally - on technical terms - missing D1...

[Nogrod]

Heh, I just got your game in the most concrete form tp...

Originally Posted by phantom

*snicker*
I did that on purpose, laddie. Poking the beehive, so to speak, just to see what reactions I got (outrage or glossing over or ignoring etc).

You're like the advents of psychoanalysis who say that every motive in your life stems from the sexual trauma you have for the opposing sex parent of yours - and if the other denies or doesnt't believe your explanation - they say the theory also holds there will be a "defence" in you denying the obvious truth...

And everything here stands or falls with the personal believability of the analyst.

I mean really. You can't say of every suspicion on you that it was misconstructed - or if you have to admit it was well constructed - that you made it on purpose to check things... Or well, you obviously seem to be able to do that, but don't expect everyone to buy it forever.

Although I'd more like to talk about others now. Really.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am back, but I should warn you, I am totally spend and will soon collapse.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Isn't this the same as the 'two votes per Rep' suggestion? Trying to make a rule in terms of how you vote for your Representative? Because you would need to have one, for a single person to get that much sway. I don't like this idea, because it in no way forces that player with that much power, to work for the better good. Their only consequence would be what? Lynched the next Day for acting poorly with votes? But that would be further detriment to the Cave.

I do agree, that we should all be voting for who we think would do a good job; but who we think is an Orc first. Because an Elf could do a splendid job, but that is counterproductive.

I never suggested this as a rule that should be implemented, I was just sharing my thoughts about what scenario I find most desirable.
I am sorry if I did not make that clear.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Nope

Now if I understand Shasta, Nerwen, and Foley's objection to those who voted phantom as a rep, instead of feigning information, it looks like they are feigning ignorance and are hiding behind random votes to look innocent. Eh, as silly as it is, I don't think there's evil intent there. I've already shared my opinion on those three votes, and one thing I will not stand for is to be mis-represented *glares at Rune*



I did not attack either of their votes. I said their votes actually looked innocent.

You said that their actions (including the votes) made them look innocent, but you completely trashed them for voting the phantom. Didn't you tell them that they had no backbone and such?

[Nogrod]

Bah, well over midnight and I have an early morning call...

So I'm more or less uneasy with Nerwen and Boro. And tp.

But then again I do think we would be foolish to lynch them without better cases than "uneasiness" on D1. We have a host of potential submarines around which would probably be better ideas to try toDay.

Which doesn't mean allowing to phantom's campaign over the randomness of D1's. D1's can be unproductive or even totally uninformative - but the villains can be caught on them as well. This time it doesn't look like we have a good lead (by now - there are still hours to go though) but on some other D1's we do have them.

Of others, I'm a little less convinced of Shasta's goodness (even if I still keep him in my more probably innocent than not -category) and little less bothered about Legate.

Mira I think was clearly someone who didn't read the thread - and as such not someone I would vote for a representative (another promise here) - and where Nerwen's attack on her looks like reeally bad.

Lottie looks first like more or less going by any winds present and then later on as opportunistic - in between the sense she makes.

Sally I think goes to the 50-50 category being just the toying herself with no role or using the "role" of Silly-Sally to her advantage in a bold manner. Might go either way.

I see what you Lommy say about Foley but I like her guts and would like to see more from her.

One of the few I tend to trust a bit are Wilwa (she has fooled me before) and surprise-surprise, Rune (I'm kind of surprised to catch myself saying that!).

I'm a bit torn with Izzy: she feels like she is a bit defensive being a representative whose task it would be to catch elves but then again she seems to speak sense when she speaks of others...

[Kath]

Shasta was pretty forceful earlier. Not sure if that's good or bad.

phantom and Nerwen are playing hints. Irritating but normal for those two.

Legate is picking up Lommy's flipflopping. 'Let's not talk about phantom all day.' ... leads to a post all about phantom. But then so was everything else all Day.

Haha and Lommy was either sleepy or just plain grumpy when she wrote her first post! Good points about the early votes though - why vote because you're not around if you're then around. That said in RL werewolf she's evil when acting this way.

Inzil said we don't have to vote anyone for rep, but Fea in the admin thread said that those who don't vote should and will have that used against them. It's a matter of balance I suppose. Do the SoE risk being focused on for not voting, risk voting a fellow SoE to give themselves more power, or risk voting an ordo and hoping they mess up.

I quite like Nog voting for someone he knows to be quiet for Rep. Izzy might not have picked up votes by osmosis like the loudmouths but I think she's a good choice. She's often very good at picking wolves.

With regards to Kath, I've got a feeling she will not be making an appearance today. To the pits with you! Celuien will probably, she's usually pretty busy and quiet, but far less forgetful than Kath.

I love this comment.

I kind of like where Lommy says "I'm not too happy about phantom and me having more power than the others". Just makes me feel good about her.

So that's pretty much what I was thinking as I skimmed through. Not sure what the Reps want from those of us without the power to vote. I'm going to leave it at this as I'm headed to bed.

[Eönwë]

So... finally caught up... sort of.

Comments to come.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Indeed. It would be nice to have a couple more who can approach or rival tp's power, for balance.

Why is everyone focusing on either giving the phantom power or negating him? can't we just treat him like a normal representative.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I've been leaning toward Boro, but I could possibly go for Lommy or Wilwa as well, since both seem reasonable at the moment.

So here Inzil is basically repeating Boro's post about balancing phantom with others, even down to the same suggestion of people: Boro and Lommy. I don't know why, but I don't like the implications of this. Of course, he does also mention Wilwa, but he's still mentioning the same thing. If we make phantom the centre of the game we won't be able to catch any elves.


And since everyone's been commenting on it, I just want to say:

Originally Posted by the phantom

You know better than this, Boro. To vote for me at that stage was frankly quite impressive in some ways. On one hand, it displays a "Might as well" attitude, which shows nerve as well as an understanding of where we are on this first day.

Basically, I hope that this was just a joke/spoof that your later comments were just a continuation. In my opinion, it is almost always better to wait (if possible) until people have actually posted before voting, so that you can see what you think of them.

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm uncertain of what you're trying to accomplish. Do you wish to keep me in the attractive lynch category without actually accusing, but rather make it look somehow like a logical option to lynch me? That's a typical elf trick. "You'll see I didn't actually suspect him, but he was the logical choice! Don't blame me!"

Hm... It takes one to know one. The elves always accuse others of using "elf trick"s as you call them.


edit: x-ed with Lommy. Also, just note that I wrote this before the phantom officially became phorc.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Sally ate a rotten khup-khak. She is excused from participation for the rest of the day.

[Eönwë]

So, changes in how I view people:

Rune- looks generally innocent.
Shasta - Looks good now, but seemed a bit evil to me at first
Inzil - A few things every so often make me loose a little faith in his innocence, but he still seems good.
Nerwen - Looks very good- too good in fact. Especially since she seems to be jumping on the anti-phantom/Lottie logic bandwaggon
Legate- I like what he's saying, but he seems a bit unusual to me.
Wilwa- There's definitely something wrong here. A hint of Elvishness or something.
Izzy- Looks generally innocent but I don't agree with some of her logic.


And I still don't like Boro.


All other people are under my radar and/or should post more.


A few comments:

The fact that Boro (who I don't think looks innocent) suggested Lommy makes Lommy seem good, because firstly, it seems a little too obvious (trying to get a packmate voted as rep, an anti-phantom in this case); and secondly, she was already popular and looked good, so I think he just latched onto that because she's be an easy person to suggest as the anti-phantom).

The phantom actually doesn't look evil- I just disagree with most of what he's saying, and one of the problems is that it makes me feel like those against him are all good, even though I suspect some for other reasons. However, maybe he's trying to cause controversy to root out the elves. And anyway, it would be a bit pointless to lynch him toDay anyway, when we have nothing against him except his disagreeable posts that advocate/advertise voting for him.

Mira's vote: This is where Zil's "no vote is better than a pointless vote" comes in. What if (however unlikelily) the Seer had come out of hiding and declared phantom an elf. Votes like that would just be sentencing us to doom.

Another thing I've noticed is the phantom-Boro-Inzil triangle. Boro and Inzil attacks phantom, and Inzil even votes Boro for rep. I don't like it at all. It would be a great (and very bold) move for the elves to play.

I will be very annoyed if it turns out that phorc, Sally and Lottie are both Elves. As I believe Greenie said earlier, it's quite likely that one of the two (particularly Sally or Lottie) are wolves, as it would be an almost perfect disguise,

On that note, on the phantom and Lottie teamwork (trying to defend their side): they seem a bit too obvious to be elves, but that's exactly the sort of completely bold and reckless move the phantom would try.





Basically, if I were a rep, I think that I would definitely lynch Boro, but for some reason Izzy doesn't seem so benign to me now either.



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I apologise in advance for any possible incoherences in this post. I'm so tried I can (literally) barely keep my eyes open at all.

[Isabellkya]

I find that Boro's stance on essentially staying out of things, since he does not personally have a vote. To be rather copping-out and taking the lazy, "don't want to get my hands dirty" route. What is the difference between lobbying with a vote and lobbying without a vote?

I think that ultimately, we should still play the same way as normal. Just with some not having a vote for this part of the Day. Since the opinions of the Non-Reps still matter. I've been in the same situation before, and it can be easy to just 'la la la' away, basically.

Shasta. Why do you want to see Sally lynched?

@ Phantom. I am not opposed to a Boro lynch for the reasoning at the top of this post.
Why those choices in your #275 list?

I believe Lommy voted correctly. Not sure about Greenie's and Nerwen's. If we are using both/all votes for one person, to we need to signify that somehow, like voting for them twice. Or does once, as in Greenie's case, automatically count as both/all?