Mieville's thoughts...

[Nerwen]

However–

Originally Posted by tumhalad

That is no reason to ignore them and sit idly by, content in your own moral superiority.

What on Earth makes you think I'm doing that? You, know, for somebody who gets offended pretty readily, you're not what I'd call careful about what you say to others, mate.

[tumhalad2]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

However–


What on Earth makes you think I'm doing that? You, know, for somebody who gets offended pretty readily, you're not what I'd call careful about what you say to others, mate.

Ok, fine, allow me to explain myself. Having posted the quote, quite innocently, and without any thought to offend anyone, you come along and insinuate that Im am wasting...what exactly, your time? space on an internet message board? There was absolutely no reason for you to have posted that at all; you failed to engage with the quote at all and you merely criticised me. And you wonder why I might accuse you of possessing an air of moral superiority? Well, it only seemed to follow from the tone and content of your post.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by tumhalad2

Ok, fine, allow me to explain myself. Having posted the quote, quite innocently, and without any thought to offend anyone, you come along and insinuate that Im am wasting...what exactly, your time? space on an internet message board? There was absolutely no reason for you to have posted that at all; you failed to engage with the quote at all and you merely criticised me. And you wonder why I might accuse you of possessing an air of moral superiority? Well, it only seemed to follow from the tone and content of your post.

No, what I'm querying is your phrasing,

Originally Posted by tumhalad

That there are debates in literature is no reason not to engage in them and sit idly by, content in your own moral superiority.

which makes it sound like you're talking about some "duty" you believe people have to engage in each and every debate. If you just mean I sounded like I was annoyed at you– well, yes, I was, kind of– but I've already apologised for that. I admit I was out of line.

And yet, I am making a serious point that I don't believe Miéville is raising anything that hasn't already been brought up here, here, here, and here, not to mention
here. Of course people can decide to go over the same ground again if they want to, but I do think it is pretty well-trodden ground.

[tumhalad2]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

...which makes it sound like you're talking about some "duty" you believe people have to engage in each and every debate. If you just mean I sounded like I was annoyed at you– well, yes, I was, kind of– but I've already apologised for that. I admit I was out of line.

Why criticise me? If you don't want to engage in this debate, then don't. Why is it so frustrating for you that I've made this post? Who cares if some of these points have been raised before - in that case all the better. Thanks for providing the links, people now have an opportunity to regail themselves of some similar discussions that have gone on in the past. But there are always new people coming to the boards, there's new ground to cover, new thoughts to hear, new ideas to canvass, and new points to be made. Once again, I disagree that Mieville's points have "all been made before". Yes, they are rather generic points in some ways, but that is in itself interesting. If we have a whole lot of threads here, including this one, that all supposedly deal with the same ideas, why not offer some thoughts as to why that is? What is it exactly that unites these commentators? Which ideas do they have in common, and what does Mieville emphasise particularly in the quote above? I suggested above that we scrutinise his points about On Fairy Stories. Is he right in saying that it amounts to a kind of "manifesto" for "conservative" fantasy unwilling to "challenge" us (apparently to Mieville) socially retarded readers? How should Tolkien critics who are generally sympathetic respond? To say the ground is well trod is fine, but to insinuate that all conversation must cease because of this is not, in my opinion.