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Old 09-01-2010, 06:44 PM   #1
Inziladun
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Originally Posted by Faramir Jones View Post
We should remember that when Radagast gave Gandalf Saruman's message to go to Isengard, Gandalf suspected absolutely nothing. Saruman, though doing his own thing, was still thought to be an ally. That this was a widely held feeling can be seen at the Council of Elrond, when the truth was told.
Certainly Radagast can't be blamed for trusting Saruman at the time he advised Gandalf to go to Isengard.
But what about after? R. wasn't at the Council of Elrond. The scouts from Rivendell went to Rhosgobel and couldn't find him. It doesn't appear Gandalf ever spoke with him again, at least not until after the War was over. If Radagast never figured out (or, as I think, was never fussed enough about the War against Sauron to really care) that Saruman had turned to evil, there's no reason he wouldn't have kept telling the animals and birds to bring news to Saruman.
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:23 AM   #2
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In answer to your question:

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Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
But what about after? R. wasn't at the Council of Elrond. The scouts from Rivendell went to Rhosgobel and couldn't find him. It doesn't appear Gandalf ever spoke with him again, at least not until after the War was over. If Radagast never figured out (or, as I think, was never fussed enough about the War against Sauron to really care) that Saruman had turned to evil, there's no reason he wouldn't have kept telling the animals and birds to bring news to Saruman.
What we have makes it clear that Radagast was negligent in pursuing the mission. Tolkien, in his essay on the Wizards in Unfinished Tales, said that of them 'only one[Gandalf] remained faithful'; and Radagast 'became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures'.

However, Radagast didn't go over to evil, as Saruman did; so I certainly don't agree that he would have carried on helping him once he knew the true state of affairs. I'm sure that Gwaihir, after he rescued Gandalf from Orthanc, would have given him this new information about Saruman.
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:08 AM   #3
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However, Radagast didn't go over to evil, as Saruman did; so I certainly don't agree that he would have carried on helping him once he knew the true state of affairs. I'm sure that Gwaihir, after he rescued Gandalf from Orthanc, would have given him this new information about Saruman.
I wasn't saying Radagast would have knowingly aided an evil Saruman. While the Company was in Eregion, the crebain from Fangorn were shadowing them, and you'd think, with Radagast's affinity for birds and beasties, that if he'd known of Saruman's treachery he would have put an end to their spying for him.
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:13 PM   #4
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You said here that:

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Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
While the Company was in Eregion, the crebain from Fangorn were shadowing them, and you'd think, with Radagast's affinity for birds and beasties, that if he'd known of Saruman's treachery he would have put an end to their spying for him.
Radagast doesn't control all the birds and beasts. There's an indication of this, after he delivered Saruman's message to Gandalf. The latter asked him to 'Send out messages to all the beasts and birds that are your friends'. This implies that thre were birds and beasts who weren't under Radagast's control. Presumably, the crows you mentioned were among them.
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:15 PM   #5
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Pipe Control of birds and beasts

You said here, Inziladun, that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
While the Company was in Eregion, the crebain from Fangorn were shadowing them, and you'd think, with Radagast's affinity for birds and beasties, that if he'd known of Saruman's treachery he would have put an end to their spying for him.
Radagast doesn't control all the birds and beasts. There's an indication of this, after he delivered Saruman's message to Gandalf. The latter asked him to 'Send out messages to all the beasts and birds that are your friends'. This implies that there were birds and beasts who weren't under Radagast's control. Presumably, the crows you mentioned were among them.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:52 PM   #6
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I think that sticking just to Radagast's role in LotR would be a mistake, though it's not said explicitely, Radagast participated in the assault on Dol Guldur as a member of The white council. Or so I'm convinced. Location, Location, Location. Considering Rosghobel's position on the edge of Mirkwood, is it not possible that radagast was simply oposing Sauron's will in the forest? And in the meantime separating himself among wild creatures native to those regions, where almost no humanoids lived for hundreds of years?
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:47 PM   #7
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Six years late to the debate, but I have just discovered this little gem of a note from Christopher Tolkien in "The Istari", Unfinished Tales.

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There is no hint of an explanation of why Yavanna's evident desire that the Istari should include in their number one with a particular love of the things of her making could only be achieved by imposing Radagast's company on Saruman;while the suggestion in the essay on the Istari (p. 505) that in becoming enamoured of the wild creatures of Middle-earth Radagast neglected the purpose for which he was sent is perhaps not perfectly in accord with the idea of his being specially chosen by Yavanna.
CT continues to suggest that Saruman's great scorn for Radagast might be due to the "unwelcome company" which Yavanna imposed on him. Saruman was chosen by Aule.
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Old 12-14-2016, 07:46 AM   #8
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CT continues to suggest that Saruman's great scorn for Radagast might be due to the "unwelcome company" which Yavanna imposed on him. Saruman was chosen by Aule.
Maybe Saruman resented having to be thrust into the drama of Aulë and Yavanna's technology vs. tree-hugger dynamic.
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