WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Rikae]

Experimental games are often going to be unbalanced - it's the nature of the beast. I don't consider it such a bad thing: what's wrong with an additional challenge for one side once in a while? Still, I wouldn't necessarily say this game was unbalanced. Early on we wolves were quite confident, knowing we had, potentially, three lovers and a cursed on our side. It could very easily have ended up with a village more "cobbler" than innocent (which would have been fun to see).
Foley, if you want the village to win when you're a wolf... I don't know what to say. I mean, it kind of ruins the whole point of the game, know what I mean?

[satansaloser2005]

Well, look at the wolves (and their lovers) first of all.

Wilwa: veteran player
Phantom: veteran player, even if he doesn't play much
Shasta: veteran player
Nerwen: veteran player
Lal: veteran player, even if she doesn't play much anymore
BG: complete newbie


Now the gifteds.

Dun: veteran player
Lottie: newer player but old enough to be considered skilled
Tum: newbie, first time gifted if I remember correctly
Nienna: veteran player
Boro/Kath: both veterans, but they weren't really gifteds anyway


So we had essentially five veterans and a complete newbie up against two veterans, another experienced player, and a newbie. Of course I knew Dun and there was some severe gifted PMing between Lottie and Dun, but the wolves each had more or less two votes per person if they chose. Add to it the revenge kills and whatever else they had and for goodness' sake, they had power.


Really, I don't see how that's terribly unbalanced. Of course the way the game ended up going yes, it became that way, but Glirdan can't control the flow of the game, only the start of it. I think the game was as balanced as it could have been.


Also, let's not forget my first game, where I had six wolves. The village still won. My last game Nerwen dreamt three wolves in a row, including the freshly turned cursed I believe, and the game was over far too quickly for my liking. Mods can't predict what players might do or whom the village might lynch. It's impossible.


ETA: 3800 posts. Not like to 4000, and then victory!

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Foley, if you want the village to win when you're a wolf... I don't know what to say. I mean, it kind of ruins the whole point of the game, know what I mean?

Yep, I do. Problem is, I played all but two rounds of the game an innocent bystander. I'm a very loyal type of person, and the entire role went against my grain of character. I did my best, you must understand, as soon as I was turned to a wolf, but when I first read the PM saying that Dionysus had been turned, I was pretty upset. I got over it and began plotting away. Inexperienced as I was, my plots went all astray and I ended up losing, and I was sad about that, too.

Or do you mean I should've played the entire game on the wolves side?

And to clarify, I've never played as a wolf and hoped that the village wins.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Sally

Really, I don't see how that's terribly unbalanced. Of course the way the game ended up going yes, it became that way, but Glirdan can't control the flow of the game, only the start of it. I think the game was as balanced as it could have been.


Also, let's not forget my first game, where I had six wolves. The village still won. My last game Nerwen dreamt three wolves in a row, including the freshly turned cursed I believe, and the game was over far too quickly for my liking. Mods can't predict what players might do or whom the village might lynch. It's impossible.

I don't mean unbalanced in terms of player-strengths, I mean in terms of roles n' rules. See, tum got Rikae and Lottie got Wilwa– that was good playing and good luck. But then the village found a loophole in the rules by which tum could be protected continuously, as long as the Rangers survived. That was, well, a loophole. Add to that the number of players who knew others' roles, and the fact that everyone had a unique role, and thus could basically find the wolves just by elimination.

Look, it's hard to discuss this without making it look like I'm jumping on Gllrdan. It's not that– if you run a complex game with a whole lot of new rules, it's a practical impossibility to think of everything (you, know, "even the very wise cannot see all ends" and all that). I'm just saying that I'm rather glad the phantom killed tum, as the endgame would have been lacking in drama otherwise. As it was, the village still won pretty easily.

Originally Posted by Foley

Yep, I do. Problem is, I played all but two rounds of the game an innocent bystander. I'm a very loyal type of person, and the entire role went against my grain of character. I did my best, you must understand, as soon as I was turned to a wolf, but when I first read the PM saying that Dionysus had been turned, I was pretty upset. I got over it and began plotting away. Inexperienced as I was, my plots went all astray and I ended up losing, and I was sad about that, too.

Or do you mean I should've played the entire game on the wolves side?

Not necessarily– what if you'd never been turned? Some people just assume the Cursed will play for the wolves all along, but that really depends on the player.

[Lalaith]

I liked the way that everyone in the game had a role, and the wolf/lover pairings which did make things harder for the village at times.
The main glitches/issues as I saw them:
1. the fact that everyone had a role made things harder at the end-game. It was easy for innocents to hint or reveal their roles, if no-one came to gainsay they were kind-of proven innocent, so very hard for a wolf to hide.

2. The role of Demeter. As protector of Persephone, whose side is she on? Perhaps Greenie could elucidate how she felt about her role.


Btw - in retrospect, I wonder if Shasta and I could arguably have made things easier for ourselves if we had killed Nerwen rather than Nienna on Night 6. That way we could have also got a revenge kill. However, Nerwen will be glad to know that this option was never even discussed.

[A Little Green]

Thanks everyone for the game, and Glirdan for modding! It was wonderful to play with you guys. After I had died Agan revealed to me who the wolves were. My reaction was something like "Oh my. The village has no chance against that pack." Well, apparently it did, so hats off to us!

Mac, I'm sorry for pursuing you like that, but seeing as I knew Nerwen's role your reaction to her Hades comment did look suspicious. I have no idea how I could miss Shasta's Hades hint though!

Originally Posted by Lal

2. The role of Demeter. As protector of Persephone, whose side is she on? Perhaps Greenie could elucidate how she felt about her role.

I wondered about that myself, to the extent that I PM'd Glirdan and asked him whether my first goal was to protect Persephone or help the village to win. He said pretty much that should the two contradict one another I was free to do as I chose. Basically the way I thought about it I set getting Hades killed as my first priority (and look how well I succeeded ) as his death would lead to Persephone becoming a total innocent again and thus my two goals would not contradict each other anymore.