WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Nerwen]

Nogrod, kindly go back, read my post and answer my actual points rather than your strawman version thereof.

I am getting very tired of you, indeed. At best, you've spent the entire game causing massive confusion and wasting everyone's time. I don't know what's up with you, but... honestly, whatever you are, why are you being such a jerk?

Heated battles are one thing, but the way you're been acting takes a lot of the fun out of the game.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You don't know if you'd wish me dead. Happily.

I don't know what this means, but it sounds like a threat. Is it?

Originally Posted by Nog

Well I get a bad feeling from Lottie and her voting history is possibly very bad (instead of bad that fits everyone's votes!).

Meaning?

Originally Posted by Nog

Greenie threw away her vote a bit too conveniently. Actually I think she's a wolf being first such a nice towards me ("to my own amazement I'm not suspecting Nog!") and striking immediately when she thought I was away... I could bet on that. A lot.

Who of you would stand up for her if someone made a case?

This... doesn't look good.

EDIT:X'd since phantom at #709.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Nogrod, kindly go back, read my post and answer my actual points rather than your strawman version thereof.

And that woulld be like post #? Sorry too late to for me to go skimming over alll the unrelated stuff + all the nonsense. So where is it, if there is it? And really, a post that has been posted already... you are free to make a new one but let's then drop this moral high-ground you're climbing for...

I am getting very tired of you, indeed. At best, you've spent the entire game causing massive confusion and wasting everyone's time. I don't know what's up with you, but... honestly, whatever you are, why are you being such a jerk?

Hey! Let's be decent out there! We have our roles, but let's not call each other jerks? If you're an innocent then trust me, we'll hopefully gain from this - and if you're not - then try to cope with it as a losing wolf...

And really, wasting everybody's time... the last Day (D2) I felt you were the one -with a few others who called for the same things - that were taking all my time! I had no chance of doing anything on D2 as all my time went into answering your ridiculous suspicions, and one's of those who backed you!

Also, it was not me but you who came back again and again too those issues we had already talked over (I tried to say time and time again that let's proceed from here). Were those others your lupine-friends or where they just ones to use you, I don't know.

That's the basic scenario from my POV. If someone says something then the lazy vultures come circling around without no need to give up anything themselves... they're vultures, you know. And the only substance they have is borrowed by those who really try to do something...

Heated battles are one thing, but the way you're been acting takes a lot of the fun out of the game.

Seriously? I mean if yes, then I have to consider refraining from these multi-role games. I have nothing against you as a person and I really feel bad if that is the feeling you have - if you're innocent that is; as a wolf you need to be prepared to take everything, you knew that?

But seriously, if you're honestlly feeling bad I will apologise immediately...

*Apologises*

And I can always drop out - it would be more or less easy to me as I'm not sure how much I can be online on the next Day - or the one after that. Really my intention is never to make someone feel personally bad.

Games are games and no one should be offended or left feeling wounded because of it.



Anyway, back to the game-related questions...

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I don't know what this means, but it sounds like a threat. Is it?

Nope. Read it as you like. But let me say your reading of it that way makes you look worse than better...

And why are you so interested in saving Lottie? I mean why do you especially ask for my reasons to suspect her?

Or why do you think my off-hand "counter-attack on Greenie"didn't loook good? Looking at how she's been treating me I think mine was even easier than any immediate retalitation so many hear tend to do. And at the same time I was trying to find out who would stretch their necks for her - if she was a wolf I think she could very well be - okay, I don't need to explain you these basics to you, do Í?

[satansaloser2005]

Nog, I don't want you to leave. I want you to help the village. If you need to go, don't make us lose an innocent (as you claim) to modkill and then possibly lynch another. (Yes, I know, we could catch a wolf toMorrow, but we could not as well.) If our seer(s) dream you toNight we'll be able to gauge the validity of their dreams based on your role. You'd be helping the village immensely, both in reducing the kill count (by keeping our loss down to one toMorrow, at least in theory) and in helping us obtain information for the seers.

Personally, I don't care which seer is which. In my ideal world they can stay hidden for Days, even the rest of the game, rather than parading around and cheapening the game with their knowledge and doing our work for us. I'm fine with not knowing who they are or which is which. I just think they should know.

[the phantom]

Sally- you obviously didn't read everything I said. Want to know why my Werewolf alarm went off? I'll say it slowly so that you don't miss it. It wasn't necessarily due to the Seer revealing, but due to the fact that-

...it... keeps.... the... Rangers... busy.... which... would... avoid... a... repeat... of.... the... save... last... night... which... had... to... be... the... number... one... thing... on... the... minds... of... the... Wolves... after... that.... incident... And... better.... yet... it... may... turn... out... to... be... a... worthless... Seer.... anyway.... plus... the... Seer... will... know... soon... enough... without... having... to... fabricate... some.... fake.... test.... plus... it's... weird... that... you're... trying... to... set.... up... tomorrow's... lynch.... today.

[satansaloser2005]

Ahhhh....I see we clearly have a communications barrier.

That....was....only....one....suggestion. We....could....just....lynch....a....test....subje ct....and....let....the....seers....work....it.... out....for....themselves....without....involving.. ..the....rangers. Why....can't....you....see....that?

That rudeness thing? We're doing it. Let's not, okay?

Let me make sure I understand. You're unhappy about the ranger aspect of this plan, I get that. Is that your main problem? I know it could be cumbersome to the village but at the same time (especially if Nog's unable to play any further) the test would give us information. We don't have to out the seers. Heck if I care if we do; I just said I didn't want to know anyway. I'd rather keep it simple, but I feel it's important that our gifteds (which our, of course, a gift, and therefore to be used and taken care of) get the information they need to help the village as best they can.

Nog's leaving. Why not cut our losses?

Heck, I'd be happy with him leaving of self-inflicted causes and finding out that way. I just feel it's a good way to clear up the false seer issue for good, at least for the seers themselves. (And for the record no, I'm not super after Nog just to get him to leave. He mentioned it, and I think he's evil anyway, and I know how much it sucks to not be able to participate in the game when you know you want to help your team.) We don't have to do Nog; I don't care. But what happens if I'm Hestia (I'm not, by the way) and I dream Dun toNight and find out he's a wolf? I campaign to get him lynched, succeed, and find out he's Eros! We've just killed a ranger because I thought my dream was correct and I banked on it. Obviously our seers can't do that right now, but what if they could? What if they (or he or she, whichever if not both is the true seer) could dream with the definite knowledge that their dreams would be correct? What if their dreams were *gasp* concrete?

That's the objection I don't understand. If you don't like the plan, fine. But you can't sit around, say you're innocent, and then go absolutely against a line of planning that leads to the innocents gaining more definite information. Tell me where I'm wrong on that point, just that point. Tell me that I'm wrong for wanting to help the seers know if their dreams are accurate. Tell me why that's evil, or else drop the subject, because that's the only issue up for debate.

P.S. Sorry, I know I'm getting cranky, but this isn't an issue of people saying my plan has flaws, this is people saying that I'm evil for trying to help a gifted. My role is designated to help gifteds, one as much as the next. I'm an innocent, and thus I want to help everybody I can. Don't tell me I'm not doing my job. I'm doing my best.

EDIT: x'd since the post I was obviously responding to. Oh bloody....

[Folwren]

Autume, tell us who you dreamed of the previous nights?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Autume, tell us who you dreamed of the previous nights?

NO!

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

NO!

Why not? Do I not understand something? Why not?

Cross posted with Phantom and Sally again.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Autume, tell us who you dreamed of the previous nights?

Is this a good idea? If the general consensus is yes then I will.

Edit: x-ed with bunches

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by autume98

Is this a good idea? If the general consensus is yes then I will.

No, no, no, no, no. Not unless you dreamed someone who is dead. Then yes.

What is Rikae's role then? You said wolf, but not goddess. Speak up, be heard! Tell all!

[the phantom]

Um, Tum. If you were wishing not to die today, I'm not sure if that was the best vote. Understand- I'm not saying you're lying, but... I mean- we can't prove you're the Seer, so we can't for certain believe you. Plus you may be false. And I don't think Rikae was likely to attract a run of votes.

I can understand revealing in your position, but to go ahead and cast your vote like that? Not a good plan at all.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Um, Tum. If you were wishing not to die today, I'm not sure if that was the best vote. Understand- I'm not saying you're lying, but... I mean- we can't prove you're the Seer, so we can't for certain believe you. Plus you may be false. And I don't think Rikae was likely to attract a run of votes.

I can understand revealing in your position, but to go ahead and cast your vote like that? Not a good plan at all.

This. You just condemned yourself to die, more or less.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

This. You just condemned yourself to die, more or less.

Good heavens, I feel like a moronic newbie. I still don't understand. You mean, she may be false, therefore if she lists names that are really false, innocents could die? Eh...it's true. But it is possible that we will be able to decipher what her dreams told her and determine of they are true or not.

-- Foley

x-posted with Tum, Sally, and Sally.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

This. You just condemned yourself to die, more or less.

I didn't realize that. Newbie mistake. If you lynch me I guarantee you that I will NOT be a wolf and will be revealed as the Seer. Besides do you really think that I could come up with a plan to reveal as a Seer as a wolf. This would only be my second game. I know I'm smart, but I'm not sure I'm that smart. Besides that'd be bad taste. At least for me.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Sorry dear, but Sally's the only real seer.

No she's not. She's Hestia.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

No she's not. She's Hestia.

I'm far smarter than that (as usual).

[Folwren]

Good grief! I just finished reading everything. I will look over the notes I wrote, try to make them make sense, and then post them and then maybe attempt to vote.

I'd just like to say...people...this may be a game and we may all know we like each other, but please try to be nice. I'm not even talking so much about Nogrod and Nerwen, although things have gotten somewhat nasty there, but...be nice to Autume, folks. Please. I don't mean to change your opinion of her, but at least be all the way civil, and not just half-way decent to her.

-- Foley

Edit: Cross posted with Sally, Phantom, and Tum.

[Folwren]

Okay, my notes turned into a hopefully readable post:

Nogrod’s reasoning seems really screwy. Nerwen hits the nail on the head when she evaluates what she dubs his ‘fork reasoning’. However, it is hard for me to take everything Nerwen says completely seriously. The first day or two, I felt some suspicion towards her, though I could not and still cannot say exactly why. (It does not help that I did not read all of Day 2 very thoroughly.)

But then I read Nogrod’s first post after returning, post number 666 (good blazes, what a number!). He seemed genuinely angry. Wow, it’d be nice if he could put that much feeling into his RPG posts. (I love you Nogrod, really do.) I have nothing definite to say concerning this, but in my mind, he seemed to refute Nerwen’s post against him pretty darn well. He also seemed to have feeling that a true guilty wouldn’t have.

Although it is true that his posts do not necessarily hold a great deal of meat in them, they seem un-wolfish to me. So, now I’m suspecting both Nogrod and Nerwen, but am leaning more towards Nerwen being guilty. NOT because of what Nogrod said, but because of my previous gut feeling about Nerwen.

--

At first, Lottie’s post about Tum made little sense to me (as has been noted by others) and my impression of Tum after reading half of it (I confess, I didn’t read it all) was that, “She’s a newbie and likely is innocent. If she’s new, it’s not really surprising she agrees with everyone.”

But then I started to see different quotes from her (mostly, her talk about Eonwe being innocent, her comment about Rikae and then in post 600 she takes it back) and saw how absolutely non-uniform they all were and my alarm bells started going off in my head.

Concerning Tum’s post 670 – Sadly shallow. I don’t like saying mean things about people, but that was my impression. Why’d she probably vote for Sally or Rikae when she thought Nogrod was looking more and more suspicious?

--

I noted the few accusations about Phantom, and I still hold to my opinion that I briefly stated yesterday and say that I am getting a feeling that he is innocent.

I know this is a bone of contention for Sally. Why did I defend him when there had been few votes against him? Answer: I had absolutely NO time on my hands to read the thread, I saw he was being voted for, voting time had barely started, and I just wanted to say I thought he wasn’t a wolf. I feared that many people might suspect him and vote for him, that is all.

--

I do not understand why everyone is saying we have two seers. I seriously need to go back and check the admin thread, but I don’t have time tonight and won’t have time tomorrow, neither. Blah.

Sally’s plan of possibly sacrificing Hestia seemed dangerous. Now, understand that as I write this, I don’t quite understand what part exactly Hestia plays and all, or how we even know who Hestia is. Whatever. It seemed odd to be willing to sacrifice her. BUT, as Mac said in post 620, it didn’t seem like a plan a wolf would put forth. My opinion of her is uncertain.

--

Something that has stood out to me twice by the time I get to post 632 is that Mac says that he distrusts Inzil and Wilwa, but he cannot say why. Odd that he should even mention that he has a gut feeling….I don’t think a wolf would do that. I think that a wolf would find something to peg on someone, instead of just saying, “I have a feeling, but I don’t know why….”

--

Okay......I'm posting this without knowing if it's any good at all, but I need to get it out, because I think I'm almost out of time.

[Nogrod]

So the phantom, anyone but Lottie?

How does this sound like a lover-stuff to me?

And you know one of every lover-pair is a wolf.

[Glirdan]

Forty minutes left to vote people.

Tally is as follows

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lalaith --> Lottie 2
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum 2
Mira --> phantom
Mac --> Lottie 3
Rikae --> Tum 3

[Nienna]

Ok kids, I can no longer keep my eyes open. I don't like any of Phantom's suggestions and Tum is my best suspect.

++Tum

Which leaves the votes at:

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lal --> Lottie
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum
Mira --> Phantom
Mac --> Lottie (3)
Rikae --> Tum
Nienna --> Tum (4)

[the phantom]

I'm not a lover, Nog, and I'd bet my bank account that Lottie isn't either. I mean, fine, if you're so sure about it, why don't you bet your life? Lynch her, and if I'm right then you give up without a fight tomorrow. How's that?

[autume98]

Ok. I was really hoping I didn't have to do this, but it looks like do this or die.

If it's the wrong move I'm sorry. I'm the other Seer. I dreamt last night that Rikae was a wolf. Which is why I was going after her today.

[autume98]

Oh and I forgot my vote.

++Rikae

[Folwren]

Never mind. He was talking to Sally, and it was a joke. Forget it.

[Folwren]

Oh dear.

[Rikae]

Sorry, but you're a false seer.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Sorry, but you're a false seer.

Well we can lynch you and find out.

[autume98]

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lal --> Lottie
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum
Mira --> Phantom
Mac --> Lottie (3)
Rikae --> Tum
Nienna --> Tum (4)
Tum --> Rikae

[Nogrod]

A hint to anyone around...

Both tp and Tum are more or less fiercely against lynching Lottie. That amount of interest should tell you something as there aren't that many innocents who know each others - and how wrong have we been thus far?

I say go for Lottie (the best chance we have of getting one of them - Tum might be related but I'm not sure if that's so clear - tp hasn't stood for her that openly or strongly. But he has really stood out for Lottie the entire game I think.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Seriously? I mean if yes, then I have to consider refraining from these multi-role games. I have nothing against you as a person and I really feel bad if that is the feeling you have - if you're innocent that is; as a wolf you need to be prepared to take everything, you knew that?

But seriously, if you're honestlly feeling bad I will apologise immediately...

*Apologises*

Okay, Nog, I'm sorry I said you were being a jerk. But understand– normally you're someone I like playing with, and consider one of the more valuable players. This time around I'm just... perplexed. You really sound like you're much more interested in lashing out at anyone who disagrees with you in any way, than you are in actually catching wolves... or even in giving the appearance of wanting to catch wolves.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And why are you so interested in saving Lottie? I mean why do you especially ask for my reasons to suspect her?

Well, you know... you did vote her. Lottie is in the lead at the time of posting, and I really can't see why.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Or why do you think my off-hand "counter-attack on Greenie"didn't loook good? Looking at how she's been treating me I think mine was even easier than any immediate retalitation so many hear tend to do. And at the same time I was trying to find out who would stretch their necks for her - if she was a wolf I think she could very well be - okay, I don't need to explain you these basics to you, do Í?

It looked to me like you were seeing how easy a lynch she'd be.

EDIT:X'd with everyone for ages.