WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Macalaure]

After re-skimming (I'll start re-reading when the number of daily posts falls a reasonable amount), some of my opinions have changed.

Nogrod's fixation on Eonwe is bothering me. Usually he tries to see things from all perspectives. This makes me a bit uneasy.

I was a bit suspicious of Loslote yesterDay. After starting to read, I felt a little better, since I don't think a wolf would so back-and-forth-y on a number of topics. Then, her attacks on me are pretty suspicious. I might analyse her later.

I think Inzil took the "I think Mac is very suspicious, but he always is, so I won't vote for him" a bit too far yesterDay. Otherwise, not particularly suspicious.

I'm feeling a lot better about Autume.

I don't trust Shasta at all right now. He's bandwaggoning on the "Eonwe is cursed" waggon and the "Mac is Hades" waggon with some determination, but little contribution.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Regarding Mac's Hades-hints [...] They looked legit to me

They don't to me, that's why I didn't bother to refute them. I accused Nerwen of hinting to be Hades and obviously I had to use "Hades" and "Persephone" and "lovers" etc. Phantom's collection looks nice out of context, but it's bogus.

Btw, since it keeps on coming up, with "giving up" I meant giving up to explain my theory, which was misunderstood a lot.

tp, I didn't have the heart to tell you because I didn't want to disappoint you. I know you like hints and bluffs etc., but there's none of that here. I saw it, I thought it was suspicious, I pointed it out, and then faced quite some opposition and had to keep talking and defending myself. No special role involved with it.

Originally Posted by me

In my opinion, though it's frustrating to be alone with it, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover".

My English must be terrible indeed, since I don't see what's wrong with this sentence. "In my opinion, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". It's frustrating to be alone with that opinion."


Seriously, if you people are reading Hades-hints into these statements, you're being a lot more far-fetched than I possibly could have been with my Boro/Nerwen-hints theories yesterDay.


Greenie - is there any way I can convince you I'm not Hades? Of all the cases I've seen, yours looks most earnest (opposed to phantom, who doesn't seem to actually believe in his own theory, and Shasta, who just jumps on it), but all I can say to it is that it's not the case.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

After re-skimming (I'll start re-reading when the number of daily posts falls a reasonable amount), some of my opinions have changed.

Nogrod's fixation on Eonwe is bothering me. Usually he tries to see things from all perspectives. This makes me a bit uneasy.

I was a bit suspicious of Loslote yesterDay. After starting to read, I felt a little better, since I don't think a wolf would so back-and-forth-y on a number of topics. Then, her attacks on me are pretty suspicious. I might analyse her later.

I think Inzil took the "I think Mac is very suspicious, but he always is, so I won't vote for him" a bit too far yesterDay. Otherwise, not particularly suspicious.

I'm feeling a lot better about Autume.

I don't trust Shasta at all right now. He's bandwaggoning on the "Eonwe is cursed" waggon and the "Mac is Hades" waggon with some determination, but little contribution.


They don't to me, that's why I didn't bother to refute them. I accused Nerwen of hinting to be Hades and obviously I had to use "Hades" and "Persephone" and "lovers" etc. Phantom's collection looks nice out of context, but it's bogus.

Btw, since it keeps on coming up, with "giving up" I meant giving up to explain my theory, which was misunderstood a lot.

tp, I didn't have the heart to tell you because I didn't want to disappoint you. I know you like hints and bluffs etc., but there's none of that here. I saw it, I thought it was suspicious, I pointed it out, and then faced quite some opposition and had to keep talking and defending myself. No special role involved with it.

My English must be terrible indeed, since I don't see what's wrong with this sentence. "In my opinion, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". It's frustrating to be alone with that opinion."


Seriously, if you people are reading Hades-hints into these statements, you're being a lot more far-fetched than I possibly could have been with my Boro/Nerwen-hints theories yesterDay.


Greenie - is there any way I can convince you I'm not Hades? Of all the cases I've seen, yours looks most earnest (opposed to phantom, who doesn't seem to actually believe in his own theory, and Shasta, who just jumps on it), but all I can say to it is that it's not the case.

If I had to pick, Mac, a better way to say that might be 'it's frustrating to be the only one with that opinion', rather than use the word alone (which was apparently misconstrued).

And I don't think I'm 'just jumping' on Phantom's case. Nor am I 'just jumping' on the Eonwe case. Especially today, since I've clearly reconsidered Eonwe (i.e. not talking about him today). This just looks like you're lashing back against people who suspect you. Especially with your reaction to his question earlier - and the way you just responded to Phantom (i.e. denigrating the people who suspect you) makes me think the worse of you, as that's a wolvish tactic.

[the phantom]

Okay, Mac-

Originally Posted by Mac

Phantom's collection looks nice out of context, but it's bogus.

Well naturally any hints are going to have to be somewhat out of context. You can't say "Here's a hint" and then make one of those statements (okay, you could, but then they wouldn't be able to be looked for or discovered, as they'd be right there). So don't accuse me of over-reaching on account of that.

Originally Posted by Mac

My English must be terrible indeed, since I don't see what's wrong with this sentence. "In my opinion, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". It's frustrating to be alone with that opinion."

No, no, there was nothing wrong with the sentence, but the fact that you stated that you were alone and were discussing lovers... I mean- you do understand why that might resemble a hint, right?

But in the end, you say-

Originally Posted by Mac

tp, I didn't have the heart to tell you because I didn't want to disappoint you. I know you like hints and bluffs etc., but there's none of that here. I saw it, I thought it was suspicious, I pointed it out, and then faced quite some opposition and had to keep talking and defending myself. No special role involved with it.

All right then. So in other words you're saying that you weren't even so much as laying false hints, but rather you weren't meaning to be indicating anything at all. Okay. This makes me suspect you less, as it seems to me that it would've been incredibly easy for you to write off the statements as ploys, but instead you've put forth that you never meant it at all, which you surely must know would look less believable in the eyes of those who already wish to suspect you. Why would you say this if it were not the truth? So- at this point I'd say I'm willing to leave those comments behind, Mac.

(Just fyi, in my earlier post I was wondering if perhaps you were Demeter and that was the cause of your Persephone/Hades obsession, and it was the Demeter role I was referring to earlier when I mentioned that there was an unlikely possibility by percentage but something that explained your behavior well after I reread the rules. It was this that I was trying to give you the chance to hint at.)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Wait a second, what? Phantom, you say you suspect Mac less because he didn't write off his 'hints' as ploys, because it would have been easy to? That makes no sense. What kind of ploys would they have been, had he said otherwise? It seems to me that claiming they were ploys would have led to Mac having to at least softclaim a role, so... I'm not seeing why that makes him less suspicious.

[Macalaure]

Thanks, phantom.

I got a bit too irritated up there, I think. From my perspective, all those points are kind of ludicrous, and ignoring them just made it all worse. I can understand how Boro/Nerwen/Eonwe feel now.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Mac

Greenie - is there any way I can convince you I'm not Hades? Of all the cases I've seen, yours looks most earnest (opposed to phantom, who doesn't seem to actually believe in his own theory, and Shasta, who just jumps on it), but all I can say to it is that it's not the case.

You can convince me of nothing, I'm afraid, but you're doing a really good job just by sounding so innocent. Eurgh. I'm really torn now - my cold hard logic says wolf, my warm softer side (that would probably believe almost any "I'm not a wolf" -statement just because it doesn't want to admit that in werewolf nice people lie all the time) says innocent. I'm way too easy to fool, apparently.

Nah, and I'm dead tired and should be going to bed now. Vote in a sec...


EDIT: x-ed with Nog

[A Little Green]

Just quickly - Nog, cool down a bit, please. You are not exactly recommending your argument by that, especially right after telling phantom to relax.

Originally Posted by Nog

I have seen no argument why we should not take Nerwen's possible hint seriously. It was very early (first post) and she could have relied all the people would banter like they always do, so her little one would drown in the sea of God-names thrown around but her lover might pick it: so little danger, possible rewards - but alas! that didn't happen! It soon emerged that people were quite careful not using the banter-mode - and the whole hint-thing became a big issue.

I have given you one, others have given you others I believe. Don't you read what others post? *cough* Like I said, I don't believe Nerwen's "What the Hades" was a hint though there is nothing wrong with your argument itself. I don't believe it because I don't think Nerwen's way of hinting she was Hades would be to scream "Hades". It was either Day 1 banter (more probable, as I think others have pointed out) or a hint from Persephone to Hades (which doesn't really make sense, but was my initial thought).

[A Little Green]

I think Nog's obsession with Hades-Nerwen is as badly founded as... my obsession with Hades-Mac I suppose. But really, a Hades-Nerwen just doesn't sit right with me at all, I simply can't see her doing that as Hades. While I have doubts about my Hades-Mac, I find it an infinitely more probable scenario. (And at least I admit I may be wrong and consider other alternatives..)

Alas! here go my hopes of a game that doesn't involve quarreling with Nog. Oh well.


EDIT: x-ed with Inzil and 2x Shasta

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I have given you one, others have given you others I believe.

I'm not sure about yours, but your belief in others really responding to the believability of the exact scenario is more or less non-existent.

I don't believe Nerwen's "What the Hades" was a hint though there is nothing wrong with your argument itself. I don't believe it because I don't think Nerwen's way of hinting she was Hades would be to scream "Hades". It was either Day 1 banter (more probable, as I think others have pointed out) or a hint from Persephone to Hades (which doesn't really make sense, but was my initial thought)

That's exactly the point darling! When she did that she was justifiably in the belief it would not have stood out! But then the game got into a totally another path and hardly anyone bantered or called the Gods... I'm trying to say she was thinkig it would fit in and not arouse attention but against her well-grounded beliefs it ended up calling attention.

It's easy to say, lookng at Day1 as it is now afterwards that only a fool would have put a hint in there as there is so little of any God-name-dropping (the best way to hint) - but could have not been known when the girst posters were posting.

And I do agree, Persephone has no need to hint at Hades as Hades already knows who Persephone is. It's the task of Hades to guide Persephone into guessing it right during the Nights with her PM's. So let's forget that Persephone / Nerwen talk. That is far-fwetched and illogical - still many people seem to find the improbability of Persephone hinting meaning suspicions on Nerwen are far-fetched...

My frustration comes only from this, that peole don't pick the actual argument and say it's rubbish because, but only say "Nerwen wouldn't have done that" not ewven considering the circumstances etc that the argument relies on.

Blah. Said once again. And will not say it anymore. If Nerwen is a wolf, you laid the table for her. Be my quests.