Did Finwe have daughters?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galin

For the main entry Wikipedia currently chooses Findis and Irime. I would not, for though the matter is speculative the new writing in 1968 would suggest the loss of Faniel, and Finvain/Irime are the 'older forms'...

Well, I'm not sure Wikipedia should be "choosing" at all, in this case. It seems that often the people writing these articles are trying to make a final judgement on which unpublished variant is the "true" version– in a way which ends up being pretty arbitrary and which I think is well beyond the scope of a short encyclopedia article for general readers. Similarly, the tendency to favour material from HoME over the published version (e.g. stating categorically that "Orodreth was the son of Angrod"), may be in line with Tolkien's later wishes, but it's pointlessly confusing to the casual reader who just wants to brush up on Middle-earth– see the original post.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, I'm not sure Wikipedia should be "choosing" at all, in this case.

If I had to choose I would choose Irien over Irime -- but for clarity, I didn't and don't mean that in the context of me writing a Wikipedia article. That's my choice for my personal internal history.

If I were to write a Wikipedia article I would include that Orodreth as the son of Angrod is Tolkien's latest known thought on the matter, along with other information, as I know this is different from the 1977 Silmarillion. Tolkien's work on the Elder Days can be confusing, and unless Wikipedia is going to limit itself to the constructed Silmarillion...

elbenprincess wrote: OK, to clarify, indeed he had daghters, right?

Yes, according to JRR Tolkien in relatively late papers


I don't think this actually clashes with the constructed Silmarillion in any case, though granted a reader looking at the text and tables there would hardly know Finwe's daughters existed. I suppose someone could argue that because they don't appear in the 1977 Silmarillion that they do not exist internally...

... but if so I would not agree, nor do I think that that truly represents the purpose behind the 1977 Silmarillion.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galin

If I had to choose I would choose Irien over Irime -- but for clarity, I didn't and don't mean that in the context of me writing a Wikipedia article. That's my choice for my personal internal history.

If I were to write a Wikipedia article I would include that Orodreth as the son of Angrod is Tolkien's latest known thought on the matter, along with other information, as I know this is different from the 1977 Silmarillion. Tolkien's work on the Elder Days can be confusing, and unless Wikipedia is going to limit itself to the constructed Silmarillion...

No, I don't think Wikipedia should do that, of course! I'm just saying I think the writers of these articles need to be more systematic. I mean when there's significant conflict they probably should make it standard practice to say something like, "in the 1977 Silmarillion it says such-and-such, but in Tolkien's last-known writings on the subject..." etc. etc. I think that would cover all bases without being too complicated. In the articles I've seen, the writer seems to have arbitrarily picked one version to be "official". Given the authority that Wikipedia has in the eyes of many people, I think that's quite problematic.