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Old 04-21-2010, 06:54 PM   #6
Formendacil
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Silmaril

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel View Post
Thus, if it ceased to give light in Mt. Doom, it must've been created with Nenya, for Sauron is mightier than Galadriel and Nenya.
Possibly....

But I'm going to go with "not necessarily."

The thing is, we don't know that the Phial was quenched by Sauron. I am going to contend that it wasn't. All that we know for sure is that it didn't work in Orodruin.

In other words--it may not have been Sauron's power at all that quenched the Phial, but the fact that it was in the heart of Orodruin. We know that Orodruin was a place of special power--that's why Sauron forged the Ring there. I wouldn't go so far as to cite the fact that it could destroy the Ring as evidence of its power, since that is tied to the fact that it was forged there, but it definitely seems to have been forged there because of a unique potency.

In Essay VII of "Myths Transformed" in Morgoth's Ring, Tolkien writes the very passage that gives us the title of that volume of the HoME, which I wish to quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essay VII
Melkor 'incarnated' himself (as Morgoth) permanently. He did this so as to control the hroa, the 'flesh' of physical matter, of Arda. He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster, and more perilous, procedure, though of a similar sort to the operation of Sauron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all 'matter' was like to have a 'Melkor ingredient', and those who had bodies, nourished by the hroa of Arda, has as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect on their spirits.
As an aside, by the way, this is part of why Glorfindel as a resurrected Elf has something of an advantage over the regular Elves of Middle-earth, in my opinion. Anyway, going on farther, skipping over a bit,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essay VII
It is quite possible, of course, that certain 'elements' or conditions of matter had attracted Morgoth's special attention (mainly, unless in the remote past, for reasons of his own plans). For example, all gold (in Middle-earth) seems to have had a specially 'evil' trend - but not silver. Water is represented as being almost entirely free of Morgoth. (This, of course, does not mean that any particular sea, stream, river, well, or even vessel of water could not be poisoned or defiled - as all things could.)
My point here, by extrapolation, is that Morgoth's power was not disseminated equally in matter, but that it was stronger--and, I would suggest, not just stronger in some types of matter, but in some places, as well. This conjecture is, I think, supported by Sauron's special choice of Mt. Doom for the forging of the Ring, since it notes (between the two passages already quoted), that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essay VII
It was this Morgoth-element in matter, which was a prerequisite for such 'magic' and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.
In other words--it was not, by this theory, the power of Sauron that quenched the Phial, but the power of Morgoth.

Now, I am aware that my "brilliant" theory suffers from the fact that the Silmarils were never dimmed throughout the long years of sitting in the Iron Crown... that we are told (though I think it a fair assumption). However, the Silmarils were the actual source of the Primeval Light (to use the terminology of Essay II of the same section, "Myths Transformed"--even though the essay's conclusions seem to have been mostly rejected, insofar as it attempts to propose a completely revised chronology, I think I can still use the term and the thought behind it), whereas it was only captured in the Phial.

I think there is a major difference in this fact, because otherwise the Phial would have been the Fourth Silmaril, different (less indestructible) in structure, but the same in terms of light, which is all the counts. It would also mean that the Silmarils would have had to have been broken to "reignite" the Two Trees, as in fact was required. Hence, I'm willing to say that I don't think the evidence of the Silmarils shining in the throne room of Angband disqualifies my theory... but that's just me.
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