Enchanted Stream

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Enchanted sleep is a pretty standard "Faerie" thing. Rip Van Winkle, &c. Sleep was sweet in Bombadil's house, though not quite enchanted. I forget whether Smith slept in Faerie; seems like he must have but I haven't read Smith in a while.

For Elves: Frodo fell asleep under the elven music in Rivendell; all three hobbits slept deeply and well under Gildor's care in Woody End; and Melian cast a spell of years over Thingol.

Hmmm..... The Elves, of course, are always singing, as is Bombadil. Which makes me wonder if the "enchantment" on the stream in Mirkwood is "magic" as we tend to think of it, or something in the music of the water -- an echo of Ulmo's Music, perhaps, protecting the woodland Elves against the evil that began to spread from Dol Guldur. We do know that Ulmo was not completely withdrawn from ME of the Third Age, and something like an enchanted stream could be his subtle way of aiding the Elves of Mirkwood against the forces of the "Necromancer." The Elves might not have put the "enchantment" there themselves, but would surely have become aware of it and taken advantage of it (to the point that I could see the "Elven-king" incarnation of Thranduil in TH claiming to have made and control the "enchantment"). Being put to sleep is not necessarily dangerous; those familiar with Mirkwood would avoid the stream, those who were not would have a strong chance of encountering it, and thus give the Elven patrols time to find them and decide if they should be considered friend or foe. It would definitely be a thing to avoid for Dwarves trying to make their way through Mirkwood, as the Elves are hostile toward them.

Well, it's just a thought. The woodland Elves would not have been able to make certain that hapless travelers didn't fall asleep and drown in the stream, but Ulmo certainly could, I should think. It's a way of avoiding that little problem.

[mark12_30]

Ibri-- I really really like your point about the singing, but I have to spread some rep around first.

[mark12_30]

I'm not so sure about "Enchanted" but nobody really wants to touch, drink, or swim in our Rhode Island streams... today, or tomorrow, or the next day.

The Rhode Island Mall is drownded, Mister Frodo. Drownded.

[ecthelion]

Thranduil comes to mind, but is he that powerful? Maybe Elrond came over to help him out.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by ecthelion

since the magic seems very strong, I wonder who enchanted it. Thranduil comes to mind, but is he that powerful?

Welcome, ecthelion. I think that's the main question here.

The more I think about this, the less likely I think it is that the stream's magic was the work of the Mirkwood Elves.
Think about the Lórien Elves: they crossed rivers with single ropes tied at either end over the water. Legolas told Haldir he had no trouble doing that. Wouldn't that have been a hallmark of the wood-elves in Mirkwood too? If they had enchanted that stream as a barrier to the entrance of the realm from the forest path (that according to Beorn was hardly used by anyone), wouldn't they have set up a way for them to cross it in the same way they did it in Lórien? As it was, all it took was a party with a small hook to grab the boat on the eastern bank and drag it to them. Every member of Thorin's group would have made it across, if not for a deer jumping out of the trees at the wrong time. Would the Elves, having taken the trouble to put a sleep-spell on that stream, really have been so careless as to have left a boat reachable by intruders that they could use to cross?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The more I think about this, the less likely I think it is that the stream's magic was the work of the Mirkwood Elves.
Think about the Lórien Elves: they crossed rivers with single ropes tied at either end over the water. Legolas told Haldir he had no trouble doing that. Wouldn't that have been a hallmark of the wood-elves in Mirkwood too? If they had enchanted that stream as a barrier to the entrance of the realm from the forest path (that according to Beorn was hardly used by anyone), wouldn't they have set up a way for them to cross it in the same way they did it in Lórien? As it was, all it took was a party with a small hook to grab the boat on the eastern bank and drag it to them. Every member of Thorin's group would have made it across, if not for a deer jumping out of the trees at the wrong time. Would the Elves, having taken the trouble to put a sleep-spell on that stream, really have been so careless as to have left a boat reachable by intruders that they could use to cross?

That's actually interesting and it makes sense. On top of that, if we take into account what kind of monsters one encounters in Mirkwood, the river is really not the best of a defense: spiders can climb trees and they can cross the river that way. Also, the river protects the Elves mostly from the west, not really from south, which is the direction of the strongest evil powers. Again, if it was aimed against intruders from outside Mirkwood, coming from the west, why to put that boat there. One could speculate that it might be used as defense against the Orcs, in case they would - for whatever peculiar reason - decide to travel weeks down from the mountains through the forest, and counting on that they will be stupid enough not to use the boat. But that's rather farfetched... well, it is true that it would stop an army from invading (I mean, carrying 1000 Orcs across the river would take a while with one small boat, and a few clumsy ones could fall into the water). But that's about the only thing the river would be good for. Even the most dangerous local "predator", the Nazgul, against whom the river would be very good defense by itself (although not sure if you can put Nazgul to sleep, probably not) cannot be driven back by it anymore when there is a boat there, in fact, putting a boat there is the only way (except for straightaway building a bridge) how to ensure a Nazgul can get past. So it really does not make sense to do such a thing unless you have stronger reasons to have the boat there.

As for ecthelion's question (and indeed, welcome to the Downs!), however, I think if Thranduil wanted, he could make something like that. I don't think it's such a big deal for an Elf of his kind, and he was powerful after all, at least relatively.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

It is possible to hypothesize the stream was enchanted by
a few of the nazgul, on orders and directions from Sauron,
as part of a plan to isolate the elves (and collaterally the men
of Laketown) as part of a plan to prevent northwestern M-E collaboration
in defense. The stream to the west, giant spiders et. al. to the south,
Smaug to the east, and orcs in the mountains north of Mirkwood
would isolate the strongest single force in Rhovannion (the wood
elves of Thranduil). The stream's purpose could be seen not as an
absolute barrier but rather as akind of speed bump, together with
harassing evil creatures lurking around it. (All them eyes at night! )