Of the Three and the Fading of the elves

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

About the Elessar being a "lesser power": That's why I found it interesting that Tolkien wrote that Galadriel gave it away after getting Nenya because she thought she no longer needed it. This to me implies that there was more power in the Elessar than she had initially realized, or that Nenya alone was not going to prove to be as powerful as she hoped it would be. Galadriel may have wanted the Elessar because she realized that it had powers Nenya did not, or perhaps that it combined with a Ring of Power -- especially one bent toward preservation -- would be much stronger than either alone. Thus a realm having both the Elessar and one of the Three might be better preserved and protected than it would have been with either one alone. Nenya had the vulnerability of being linked to the One Ring (probably because it was made using methods learned from Sauron); the Elessar did not, and what was done with it may have not been subject to fading with the demise of the One. That could give Galadriel a very strong reason for wanting it back. Not that it necessarily would have worked in the long run, but one never knows unless they try.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

About the Elessar being a "lesser power": That's why I found it interesting that Tolkien wrote that Galadriel gave it away after getting Nenya because she thought she no longer needed it. This to me implies that there was more power in the Elessar than she had initially realized, or that Nenya alone was not going to prove to be as powerful as she hoped it would be. Galadriel may have wanted the Elessar because she realized that it had powers Nenya did not, or perhaps that it combined with a Ring of Power -- especially one bent toward preservation -- would be much stronger than either alone. Thus a realm having both the Elessar and one of the Three might be better preserved and protected than it would have been with either one alone. Nenya had the vulnerability of being linked to the One Ring (probably because it was made using methods learned from Sauron); the Elessar did not, and what was done with it may have not been subject to fading with the demise of the One. That could give Galadriel a very strong reason for wanting it back. Not that it necessarily would have worked in the long run, but one never knows unless they try.

I believe Nenya was far more powerful than the Elessar. The elf-stone was said to heal the hurts of the land, men, and beasts (havens of Sirion). Thus, it would make sense that the jewel came from/made by Celebrimbor, as the healing properties and principle are clearly brought back with pronounced potency in his creation of the Three.

I say the Elessar is weaker because to me, it seems the wielder (Earendil) cannot evoke an "enchanted" enclave. The lands about the weilder were merely refreshed, restored, and healed. Healing is natural if damage is present. But what if there was no damage? There would be nothing to heal. And what then? Decay must come inevitably. Can something be healed if it is merely following its natural course? I think not.

This is where I think the Elessar and the Three differed. The Elessar did not violate the natural law because it could not/did not hold back time (preserve). Whatever was done and wrought by the weilder of the elf-stone, it would still be subject to mortality, though rejuvenated and healed for a while, but ultimately still mortal. When Celebrimbor made the Three, he took the healing and growing properties of his essay (Elessar) and combined it with Sauron's lore (arresting time), I believe.

Hence why Galadriel gave up the Elessar after possessing Nenya. With Nenya, she could grow all fair things about her, just as the Elessar afforded, but with the added luxury of completely preserving her tree-hugging works from the ravages of time, thanks to Sauron's lore. The Three were blatant violations of nature in noble hands.

And I think I finally understand where her regret comes from. With Nenya, she was able to replicate some measure of the Blessed Realm, which she seemed satisfied with, regardless of how some view Lothlorien as a pale comparison. And I now understand why Nenya had 'a power upon her' (U.T.) that caused her to long for Valinor. It's not hard to imagine since she uses the Mirror. Remember that she wished, were it of any avail, that the One remained forever lost (FOTR). I think she already knew by her usage of her Mirror, that after she went all out in beautifying Lothlorien, Nenya (via Mirror) showed her the future that concludes a Galadriel shorn of her power. A regret that stems from her foreknowledge (via Mirror of Galadriel future events) that the Great Ring would be found and Sauron will awake, and her golden dream hastens to a greay awakening (whether the Ring is destroyed, or recovered by Sauron or she takes it for herself). Everything she wrought was in vain.

And even if she had kept the Elessar after the One's demise, it would not match up with the satisfaction that Nenya provided. She and other elves would still be touched by the weariness of the world. With the Elessar, she would be constantly healing and in vain, since she cannot preserve what she heals or creates with it. So why not give the elf-stone to mortal men since the Elessar fits their very nature (temporary guests of the world).

[Galin]

I agree Gorthaur... heal a trodden flower and it is, at least in some sense, 'preserved', but it will then wither and die according to its natural cycle.

Nenya preserves a flower for centuries (however long), unwithered, and Galadriel does not have to minister to each flower specifically, but all trees and flowers in her realm fall under Nenya's sway... but this too must ultimately fail.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Galin

I agree Gorthaur... heal a trodden flower and it is, at least in some sense, 'preserved', but it will then wither and die according to its natural cycle.

Nenya preserves a flower for centuries (however long), unwithered, and Galadriel does not have to minister to each flower specifically, but all trees and flowers in her realm fall under Nenya's sway... but this too must ultimately fail.

Yes, Nenya must fail because it was linked to the One and because of Galadriel's final choice to reject the Great Ring. But I believe, the will of Eru and his intentions for the elves to live in Valinor and Sauron's binding of the Three aside, the Three could have warded off time and decay indefinitely. Afterall, they were the pinnacle of Celebrimbor's craft. Those who held them could truly create enchanted paradise East of the sea, especially Nenya, which Tolkien intended later in life as the 'Chief of the Three'. Remember the feeling Frodo felt when he touched the mallorn in Lorien. He could feel the delight and life of the tree itself. I believe the Three were more than capable of preserving realms and Elves' bodies until the life-age of the earth reaches its end. Unfortunately, the glory was short-lived thanks to Sauron's deceits.

And yes, I agree with you Galin, that the Elessar needed to be individually administrated to the flora and fauna. How inconvenient and time-consuming and frustrating, for it cannot even last. Now, suppose the Three were freed from the One's grasp and survived after the One had gone, could the Three possibly cover the entire Middle-Earth in its preserving and healing sway? Or is the extent of the effect only equivalent to the likes of Lorien--a small forest and seemingly equivalent in size as Nan Elmoth of Beleriand?

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

(...) especially Nenya, which Tolkien intended later in life as the 'Chief of the Three'.

Hmm, but did he? While the Elessar manuscript was written after The Lord of the Rings of course, I'll just add that it is not what I would call a very late text, nor did Tolkien revise 'Vilya, the mightiest of the Three' for the second edition of The Lord of the Rings, which came later.

Sorry -- straying a bit off topic (moreover, based on one small part of your post!), but I couldn't resist.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Galin

Hmm, but did he? While the Elessar manuscript was written after The Lord of the Rings of course, I'll just add that it is not what I would call a very late text, nor did Tolkien revise 'Vilya, the mightiest of the Three' for the second edition of The Lord of the Rings, which came later.

I agree, and it wouldn't make sense for Celebrimbor to not give Gil-Galad the mightiest of the three, but just because it was the strongest, it doesn't necessarily mean that Vilya was "The one that can best preserve the nearby environment". After all, it doesn't seem that Gandalf used Narya in such a way. The power of Three wasn't the same but just at different strengths. Though they had a hierarchy of strength, they were each related to a different element, and so power they gave their holder probably had different characteristics.

[Galin]

While it's true that Tolkien could be making a distinction between 'mightiest' and 'chief', and while I also don't think he necessarily need feel bound by a letter, still, in lettter 131 he noted that the chief power of all the rings alike was the prevention or slowing of decay...

... adding that the Three were supremely beautiful and powerful '... and directed to the preservation of beauty'.

If Tolkien wants to explain how Nenya is the chief and Vilya is the mightiest, he certainly has the creativity to come up with something, but he might just have forgotten what he had published concerning Vilya too, and considering the other questions The Elessar manuscript raises, I might question this detail as well.