Microphones in Middle-earth...the BBC Lord of the Rings

[Mithalwen]

No I should have done more. Have really free loaded on this but have so enjoyed the ride.

What I find so amazing is that it stands so much relistening and that I keep hearing new things - thanks to a better player I have realised that the death of the fell beast is more gruesome in its sploshiness than any visual special effects!

Also, in contrast to so many contemporary programmes it assumes a certain intelligence and attention span on the part of the listener - there is very little extra explaining which is remarkable given it was designed to last half a year with no Iplayer to catch up on.

I have just treated myself to the 1967 adaptation of "The Forsyte Saga" - I have long loved the books and have always been told how wonderful the TV adaptation was. The modern one isn't in the same league - modern audiences must be spoonfed it seems...

[davem]

Well, here we go at last with the penultimate episode: "Mount Doom" http://www.tolkienradio.com/mountdoom.html

Now, I will apologise firstly - this discussion will be divided up into sections, following the tracks on the cd. Please feel free to join in as we go, or wait till I've gotten around to posting on all seven tracks.

Don't know about anyone else but jumping into the series again at this point after such a long break was not a problem for me - I've listened to this series so many times over the years. The opening scenes, Frodo & Sam's escape from the Orcs (one gets such a strong sense that these Orcs are less the kind of monster depicted in the films & more the 'poor bloody infantry', driven, beaten, de'humanised' (if I can put it that way!). Sam's desperate attempts to lift Frodo's spirits,

Never say die, Mr. Frodo, sir. That's what my old Gaffer would say, if he were here.

are heartbreaking because they are couched in such cliche - that's all he can manage. When we then get to eavesdrop on his real thoughts its almost too much (particularly when voiced by such a brilliant performer

It looks every step of fifty miles, and that'll take a week, if it takes a day, with Mr. Frodo as he is. Well, it's got to be faced, Sam Gamgee. We'll never come back. At best our food will take us to our goal, and when we get there, w - we'll be alone, houseless, foodless, and in the middle of a terrible desert. That was the job I felt I had to do when I started: to help Mr. Frodo to the last step, and then die with him. Well, i - if that is the job, then I must do it. I wish Gandalf hadn't fallen in Moria! He would have done something.

. Sam's doing 'the job' now because that's what he has vowed to do - even though when he made the vow he didn't know what he was signing up for. And you can't help wondering how much of that desperate little speech Frodo actually heard. You get the sense that even if he didn't hear all of it he heard enough. Both of them know what the 'job will entail, & they don't have to say the words. Frodo makes a joke about Sam talking to himself.

Then we cut to another pair of suffering souls, equally bereft of hope. Don't know how the actors felt about this scene, but its a difficult one - as in the books it kind of comes out of the blue: suddenly there's romance in the air. Of course, we're in the final days (or hours), as it seems, of a hopeless war. The end is coming. Faramir simply tells Eowyn that he wants to spend the little time he has left with her because she is 'beautiful'. Now, that little episode handled badly would just be naff. In this case, the writers & the actors get it, & it works. The scene ends with a glimmer of hope, And that's vital at this point. Cutting away briefly from the darkness, the hopelessness, of Frodo & Sam's trek through Mordor to give our spirits a little lift before plunging us back into the Black Land is pure 'Tolkien'. And again, so much more in the spirit of the work than Jackson's effort - where (if I recall correctly) at this point we get the 'Captains of the West' planning 'A Diversion!' Jackson at this point offers his audience the 'hope' of seeing yet another big battle, while the adaptors here give us hope of something beyond. Its like Sam's glimpsing of the star in Mordor, or the scene at the cross-roads - 'They cannot conquer forever!'

[davem]

Tracks 2&3 take us to the halfway point of the episode. Frodo & Sam's trek through Mordor has come to its end & they have reached the Mountain. Gandalf, Aragorn & the Captains of the West have confronted the Mouth of Sauron. Again the 'limitations' of the medium have actually worked in favour of the story. We focus on the sufferings of Sam & Frodo, Sam's inner struggles against his own despair - which has become a desire to simply give in, & Frodo's focus on getting to the Mountain, even though he knows that if he actually gets there it will prove impossible to do the deed.

The Meeting with the Mouth is, again, far superior to the movie version. Jackson's focus on visuals to tell the story means that the tension of the confrontation is lost, the hopelessness of the West's cause is brought home & we see the mind & plans of Sauron clearly through the words & attitudes of the 'Herald'.

Finally, we have the return of Gollum, & all the pieces are in place. The Lords of the West are at the point of ultimate defeat as the hordes of Mordor surge forth, & Frodo, Sam & Gollum are at the entrance to the Sammath Naur.

[davem]

The Ring is Mine..... Indeed. Now, I don't know how well others feel the climax at the Sammah Naur is done. Frodo seems completely intoxicated by the Ring once he has claimed it fro his own, so that he does nothing to fight Gollum - even when Gollum actually tells him he is going to bite his (Frodo's) finger off:

Frodo: So now the Eye can see me.

Gollum: Give us the Precious, hobbit. The Precious. We wantss it.

Frodo: No.

Gollum: Yesss! Yes, we will have it.

[Frodo laughs quietly]

Gollum: Where's its handses? Got it!

[He hisses]

Gollum: Now, give us the Preciouss.

Frodo: No, Sméagol. It is mine!

[Gollum hisses and laughs]

Gollum: Well, if it won't give it usss, then we'll bites it and takeses it.

[Gollum bites down and Frodo screams]

Gollum: Lost its finger, has it, hm? Silly hobbit! Now, we've got the Precious! Precious, precious! My Precious!

I'm not sure about it - but it must have been an impossibly difficult scene to write & to perform. If you aren't going to have the Narrator describe the events (which would kill the dramatic impact of the events) how do you depict the events with voices alone? It doesn't work as well as in the book, obviously, but it is far, far superior to the silliness of the movie. I also think that Peter Woodthorpe's magnificent performance of Gollum's exultation at finally winning the Ring back is so powerful that any slight sense of 'awkwardness' one might have felt at the lead up to it is forgotten. This is Gollum's moment & he should have the glory of that scene. Ian Holm's performance is superlative, once you accept his/the writer's decision that Frodo is so drunk with his surrender that he is incapable of registering what is happening. What follows, with Sam's amazement at the achievement of the Quest, & the sudden magical resurgence of hope - Bill Nighy plays that so well - Sam's sudden belief that they may make it out of there after all, that he may see the Shire again.

And then Frodo tells him he can;t manage to go any further, dashing Sam's hopes...Frodo has given up (Tolkien stated in one of the letters that Frodo had expected to die at the end of the Quest, & Ian Holm captures this perfectly - you almost feel that he is not interested in going on now.

But then the Eagles come & it is Sam's wish that is granted, not Frodo's . The appearance of the eagles is not accounted for, & we are not told what happened at the Black Gates. I still don't know whether this is a lack. But its not really important - at least the Lighthouse was absent!

I love how the Field of Cormallen was handled, Sam's joy, the merry meetings, the praise of the Ringbearer & his servant. Stephen Oliver's struggles with the Ambrosian Singers have been alluded to at the beginning of this discussion, but he succeeded admirably, & the whole scene captures the power & joy of the event perfectly.

The Eagle's song, intercut with Faramir & Eowyn's pledging their love for one another, the crowning, & marriage of Aragorn & Arwen & the discovery of the White Tree in the snows of Mindolluin is beautifully done, tying up many loose ends, & closing off that part of the tale, & setting up the final scenes - Frodo receiving the White Jewel from Arwen, with the mention of Bilbo & his final journey. We are being prepared for the ending of the long tale. The Hobbits are going home, via Rohan & then on to Rivendell (Oh, & let's not forget that unfinished business at Isengard!)

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I like the way the Eagle's Song was expanded to tie up loose story ends here - a great idea! I also very much like the use of the countertenor voice for the Eagle to convey otherworldliness.

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by davem

The Ring is Mine..... Indeed. Now, I don't know how well others feel the climax at the Sammah Naur is done. Frodo seems completely intoxicated by the Ring once he has claimed it fro his own, so that he does nothing to fight Gollum - even when Gollum actually tells him he is going to bite his (Frodo's) finger off...

I'm not sure about it - but it must have been an impossibly difficult scene to write & to perform. If you aren't going to have the Narrator describe the events (which would kill the dramatic impact of the events) how do you depict the events with voices alone? It doesn't work as well as in the book, obviously, but it is far, far superior to the silliness of the movie.

I'm not sure about it, either, and I think I wrote that episode!

As Dave says, it was an impossible scene to write aurally. I think worse options would have been Frodo saying: "Aaaaggghhhhh! He's bitten off my finger!" Or Sam saying: "Deary me! Nasty Slinker's bitten off poor Master's finger!" It is a scene that needs to be read not described by the participants in the action.

I also think that Peter Woodthorpe's magnificent performance of Gollum's exultation at finally winning the Ring back is so powerful that any slight sense of 'awkwardness' one might have felt at the lead up to it is forgotten. This is Gollum's moment & he should have the glory of that scene. Ian Holm's performance is superlative, once you accept his/the writer's decision that Frodo is so drunk with his surrender that he is incapable of registering what is happening.

I agree: Woodthorpe played his final moment superbly well.

During the recordings, Ian and director, Jane Morgan, got irritated by Peter's tendency to (how can I put it?) 'luxuriate' in his lines! Partly because the many ssssss that he added to words somewhat lengthened the running time (!) and, in Ian's case, quite often 'underscored' his own lines!

Personally, I always thought that Peter was thoroughly immersed in the character and, if (as he obviously did at times) he p***ed off one or two of his fellow actors that was very much 'in character'!

Ian's 'intoxication with the ring' was, I think, his interpretation and there was a moment where he almost became Woodthorpe's Gollum.

I remember the recording of this scene very vividly: two actors standing at a microphone, holding scripts and wearing ordinary clothes and specs. Suddenly, when it came to THAT line, Peter seized Ian's hand and forced it into his mouth. Fantastic! So when I hear those lines, that's what I see in my mind's eye!!

Glad you're finishing off this epic! Well done!!!

PS: Unlike Estelyn, I could have done without counter-tenor for eagles!!

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

I remember the recording of this scene very vividly: two actors standing at a microphone, holding scripts and wearing ordinary clothes and specs. Suddenly, when it came to THAT line, Peter seized Ian's hand and forced it into his mouth. Fantastic! So when I hear those lines, that's what I see in my mind's eye!!

Oh my gosh... thanks so much for this tidbit, as I'm never going to get that out of my head...

Glad you're finishing off this epic! Well done!!!

Actually, davem, thanks for the delay, as if you had finished this on time I would never have been able to jump on board.

I also like the track division, as the copy I finally managed to buy is the 2003 recut version (after all this is over, might we go back and discuss the extra narrational bits recorded to tie the new cuts all together?) and I'm pretty sure the tracks line up. Unfortunately, I can't check, as this week I lent out my copy to a friend who's never heard it before. Which is a great reason to not contribute aside from reactions based on memory, but still.

PS: Unlike Estelyn, I could have done without counter-tenor for eagles!!

Oh, good... I thought it was my youth and/or Americanism that made that so off-putting for me. The notion of a singing eagle is already difficult to dramatize without it sounding silly, but the notion of his being a counter-tenor (and I'm imagining the bells attached to his talons, too) just kills my secondary belief with one hit.

As I recall (it's been a long time since I've heard the episode in its one-hour context) this entire episode just exuded awesome. Even though I know it's coming, I can never fail to get chills whenever Ian Holm lets out the Evil Chuckle (in case we hadn't yet gotten the picture that he was completely gone at this point). Good stuff--limited only, I think, by the fact that it's really difficult to adapt the last moments of the Sammath Naur for audio.

[davem]

I like the eagle! Honestly, the way the song intercuts the action is perfect as far as I'm concerned. I love the whole episode, & its a perfect example of how radio drama, done right, is a true art form. Actually I've just come across a book (searching on Amazon) Life on Air: A History of Radio Four by David Hendy http://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Air-His...687902&sr=1-14
which speaks of the

'fanfare of publicity for Radio Four's new serialisation of The Lord of the Rings, adapted by Brian Sibley & Michael Bakewell, directed by Jane Morgan, & starring Ian Holm as Frodo, John Le Mesurier as Bilbo Baggins, Bill Nighy as Sam Gamgee, & Michael Hordern as Gandalf.....there were twenty-six episodes, original music - & plenty of coverage in the press. Like Vivat Rex, this was a production on the epic scale. But equally satisfying for many inside Broadcasting House was that The Lord of the Rings played it straight. It was sumptuous but not flash, & satisfied the Tolkien aficionados as well as those new to the work. Crucially, the calibre of the acting had spoken for itself. As one senior editor suggested, the impact of their performances 'would raise the morale of the whole directorate'. And, indeed, it was now in the early 1980's, that critics wrote more insistently of acting on Radio Four being 'infinitely' better than ever before, & about a self-confidence having returned to Radio Drama.

Found that on the search inside option, btw, so don't ask me who the 'senior editor' was, but I'd have to agree - & with the passage as a whole. We won't ever see the like of this series again, & thank God we were so blest in the team that brought it together. Its one of the jewels in the BBC's crown.

Mnemosyne You can lead the discussion on the 'extra' narration - I haven't heard it! I'm curious - is there a lot of it?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Oh, good... I thought it was my youth and/or Americanism that made that so off-putting for me. The notion of a singing eagle is already difficult to dramatize without it sounding silly, but the notion of his being a counter-tenor (and I'm imagining the bells attached to his talons, too) just kills my secondary belief with one hit.

I love the countertenor voice and David James is one of the best but this isn't my favourite piece of music - the other counter tenor tracks were a revelation and turned me into a bit of a "falsetto fancier" . I think singing eagles were always going to be difficult but there is an operatic convention of using the voice for supernatural and otherworldly characters (eg Oberon and Voice of the mask in Britten's Midsummer Night's Dream and Death in Venice) or the alienated Refugee in Jonathan Dove's "Flight" .

More interesting I think is his use of a countertenor for Galadriel's song. I wonder if it were for practical reasons or for the purer timbre. The range may be the same as a mezzo but even going easy on the vibrato the tone isn't.