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Old 02-07-2010, 04:02 PM   #1
Faramir Jones
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Thumbs up Thanks and my views

Thanks for starting this first thread on an article from Music, Bêthberry!

Like her, I came across Steven Linden's article online; and it's nice to see it in book form, something I thought would suit it, when I finished reading it the first time.

Mr. Linden bases his speculative history of what music in Arda was like from the source materials in Tolkien's works, something I respect. He also has the humility to admit the fundamental difficulty he and anyone else like him faces:

Middle-earth is our Earth, but not our Medieval earth. Middle-earth is supposed to be ancient. It seems more than a little strange, then, that its music should be the sort of music that is peculiar to the Dark Ages and Middle Ages. Of particular note is the matter of polyphony, or contrapuntal music. In the real world, polyphony was not really developed until the latter half of the Middle Ages; yet there does seem to be polyphony in Middle-earth....The musical situation in Middle-earth appears to be something of roughly the thirteenth or fourteenth century. (p. 76)

When I read this, I smiled; because it is a musical equivalent of the hobbits, in a supposedly 'medieval' Middle-earth, having such nineteenth-century items as umbrellas and aneroid barometers.

Like Bêthberry, I liked his possible explanation for this problem, that music in Middle-earth was declining, and his speculation as to what that meant for the evolution of musical styles in Arda, which I'm going to let other readers find out for themselves.

One thing I particularly liked in his speculation was what the dwarves of Belegost in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears in the First Age might have sung when they took away the body of their dead lord, Azaghâl:

Then the dwarves raised up the body of Azaghâl and bore it away; and with slow steps they walked behind singing a dirge in deep voices, as it were a funeral pomp in their country, and gave no heed more to their foes; and none dared to stay them. (The Silmarillion, Chapter 20, p. 233.)

He speculates that the 'dirge', which 'must have been quite chilling',

was probably a melody similar to those of the Elves, though undoubtedly lacking in certain Elvish subtleties; perhaps it was in a mode peculiar to the Dwarves. It seems likely to have been monophonic: a great unison chanting by deep Dwarvish voices. It would have sounded roughly like Gregorian chant, but undoubtedly deeper, and probably with more use of formal repetitive figures. (p. 85)

If any attempt is made to try and write such music I would love to know. After all, it's not any kind of music that can so scare Morgoth's foulest minions!

I agree completely with his conclusion here:

While there is a great deal of music about Middle-earth, there have been very few attempts at writing the music of Middle-earth - that is, the sort of music that was actually heard in Middle-earth....Perhaps, then, it is time for someone to have a try at writing the "real" music of Middle-earth. (p. 89)

I would certainly support any person or group who tries to do this.

Last edited by Faramir Jones; 02-07-2010 at 04:18 PM. Reason: I got the tense wrong, and was asked to make other changes
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:11 PM   #2
Legate of Amon Lanc
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Let me also express my delight with the chapter, I must add that I really like the explanation of the decline of the music, which makes good sense related to the portrayal of Arda as we have it.

There might be much more that I could write (and in general, I find it difficult to be able to post feedback to all things I found interesting in the book), but for now let me focus only on one thing which was mentioned on this thread, and which did was not covered very much (for simple reasons: lack of source material) covered in the chapter - the Dwarven music.

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Originally Posted by Faramir Jones View Post
One thing I particularly liked in his speculation was what the dwarves of Belegost in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears in the First Age might have sung when they took away the body of their dead lord, Azaghâl:

Then the dwarves raised up the body of Azaghâl and bore it away; and with slow steps they walked behind singing a dirge in deep voices, as it were a funeral pomp in their country, and gave no heed more to their foes; and none dared to stay them. (The Silmarillion, Chapter 20, p. 233.)

He speculates that the 'dirge', which 'must have been quite chilling',

was probably a melody similar to those of the Elves, though undoubtedly lacking in certain Elvish subtleties; perhaps it was in a mode peculiar to the Dwarves. It seems likely to have been monophonic: a great unison chanting by deep Dwarvish voices. It would have sounded roughly like Gregorian chant, but undoubtedly deeper, and probably with more use of formal repetitive figures. (p. 85)

If any attempt is made to try and write such music I would love to know. After all, it's not any kind of music that can so scare Morgoth's foulest minions!
I am not sure if it sounds exactly the way I would imagine it, but especially speaking about music scaring somebody, I was immediately reminded of one thing every Czech person knows, and that's a reported flight of the army of the 4th crusade led against the Hussite revolution (this particular incident in 1427) - the story is that the Hussites marched to the battlefield singing their "anthem" Ktož jsú Boží Bojovníci (Ye Who Are Warriors of God) and the enemy simply fled in fear. You can find the song for example here, although I have heard it in far deeper voices too. But if one imagines that sung by thousand warriors (and not very "artistically conducted"), I think it might have a pretty strong effect. Not hard to imagine the Dwarves singing something like that either, or at least not for me - what do you think?

Even otherwise, I could imagine the Dwarven songs a bit more like this - and I think I have been always thinking about them as similar to for example the Russian and Orthodox chorals, resp. similar with usually everything only monophonic. As for the music they played at Bag End, however, I wonder if it would be also different than this - but maybe not as much.
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Old 03-21-2010, 09:51 AM   #3
Faramir Jones
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Boots A Czech anthem

I was interested in the anthem you referred to here, Legate:

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Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
I am not sure if it sounds exactly the way I would imagine it, but especially speaking about music scaring somebody, I was immediately reminded of one thing every Czech person knows, and that's a reported flight of the army of the 4th crusade led against the Hussite revolution (this particular incident in 1427) - the story is that the Hussites marched to the battlefield singing their "anthem" Ktož jsú Boží Bojovníci (Ye Who Are Warriors of God) and the enemy simply fled in fear. You can find the song for example here, although I have heard it in far deeper voices too. But if one imagines that sung by thousand warriors (and not very "artistically conducted"), I think it might have a pretty strong effect. Not hard to imagine the Dwarves singing something like that either, or at least not for me - what do you think?

Even otherwise, I could imagine the Dwarven songs a bit more like this - and I think I have been always thinking about them as similar to for example the Russian and Orthodox chorals, resp. similar with usually everything only monophonic. As for the music they played at Bag End, however, I wonder if it would be also different than this - but maybe not as much.
That is an impressive anthem; and I agree that it being sung by so many tough warriors would have had a 'pretty strong effect'!
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