orcs and goblins- what's the difference???

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Galin

Gimli says 'goblins' in Lothlorien (the chapter) for example (and Gamling uses 'goblin-men'), but why should the reader not think that this translates Westron orc (or whatever the plural)?

Regarding what you've suggested above, I'm not sure how it could be supported by the examples -- but anyway, as you agree that orc is Westron, your idea implies the notion that there is some other unknown Westron word Frodo is really using, which is being translated by English 'goblin'...

... but Tolkien explains 'goblin' has been used to translate orc.

I'm not saying that "goblin" does not mean "orc", only that as a translator, Tolkien uses the word "goblin" earlier on, and the further we go, the further we (and Frodo, who is writing the book) get into Middle Earth, so Tolkien uses the original word.

The Lothlorien thing is still in the FOTR, and maybe Gamling saying "goblin" there is meant to show Rohirric superstition (remember that they're afraid of Pukel-men, which means goblin-men), as well as his fear at the time, connecting this huge attack on the fortress with ancient tales of huge attacks on fortresses. Anyway, I think that in the Two Towers, that is the only mention of goblins by any non-hobbit, and I don't think it is ever mentioned in ROTK.

But actually, the particular passage you referred to may suggest that there is a difference between orcs and goblins, so perhaps we were wrong:

Originally Posted by LOTR, TT, Helm's Deep

'But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs and goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun,'

However, it may show that he was just emphasising his point by using both, in which case there were in fact two different words, which complicates matters even further.