![]() |
![]() |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
![]() |
#1 |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
![]() ![]() |
Interesting and something I've thought about at a times as well. The simplest solution perhaps is that the mountains are passable here, I don't think a gap per se, but a pass an army can march over with some effort. During Tuor's days that passage, the only Western escape-route out of Hithlum they knew of, would no doubt be well guarded by the forces of Morgoth though so the Gates of Noldor was his only chance to get out.
__________________
"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,721
![]() |
We see Tuor climb out of the cleft with ease, when he recieves the warning against the coming flood. Thus it could be that once you had walked deep enough into the cleft the, even an army would be able to leave it. (Probably the north side was less step, but tuor could reach it, because he was from the start on south of the River.
Or I could imaging that Feanor and Fingolfin used the tunnel. But that the fortification with water covering the complete flour and the steps for easier travel were later build by Turgon. Respectfuly Findegil |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
![]() ![]() |
When Tuor first came out of the tunnel he was in a deep ravine with tall sheer sides. On the fourth day, moving West, the channel grew wider and its walls lower and less sheer, and there were 'high hills' on either side -- here he is able to climb out, but he does so on the South side I think, and he will ultimately travel South.
So I would say that anyone getting into the ravine going east (Feanor and Fingolfin would be travelling eastward of course), would soon enough find themselves in a deep ravine with sheer sides. Anyway, I can see Tolkien glossing over that the Noldor crossed some mountains here, and perhaps this was the easiest point of passage, if still mountains; but I don't think the reader is supposed to think Feanor and Fingolfin both found and used some earlier version of the Gate. To my mind surely this would be something notable! even for very compressed history. Two hosts decide to climb down into the cleft, and both used some early version of Annon-in-Gelydh? Hmm, for myself, I don't think Tolkien meant this. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
![]() ![]() |
I just ran across this: concerning Amon Darthir: '... over whose shoulder there was a steep pass. By this the hardy could cross Ered Wethrin and come down by the wells of Glithui into Beleriand' The Children of Húrin also notes:
'He trusted that Ered Wethrin was a wall insurmountable, both against escape from the north and against assault from the south; and there was indeed no other pass, for the unwinged, between Serech and far westward where Dor-lómin marched with Nevrast.' The Departure Of Túrin This seems notable in any case, especially considering the first movements of the Noldor, and the movements of the Noldor into Beleriand. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
![]() ![]() |
Yes, you are right, there seems to be a continuity-problem here. It is hard to believe that both Feanor's and Fingolfin's hosts spontaneously crawled through the underground tunnel.
__________________
"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,721
![]() |
But Galin's quote does not apply to the Ered Lómin. It is a discription of the Ered Wethrin, the southern and western fence of Hithlum.
About the Ered Lómin quote to look at both from The Silmarillion. First after the Dagor Aglareb: "When nearly one hundred years had run since the Dagor Aglareb, Morgoth endeavoured to take Fingolfin at unawares (for he knew of the vigilance of Maedhros); and he sent forth an army into the white north, and they turned west and again south and came down the coasts to the Firth of Drengist, by the route that Fingolfin followed from the Grinding Ice. Thus they would enter into the realm of Hithlum from the west; but they were espied in time, and Fingon fell upon them among the hills at the head of the Firth, and most of the Orcs were driven into the sea. This was not reckoned among the great battles, for the Orcs were not in great number, and only a part of the people of Hithlum fought there." Second from a few years after the Dagor Bargolach: "Battle was joined upon the very plains of Hithlum, and Fingon was outnumbered; but timely help came from Círdan. His ships in great strength sailed into Drengist and there landed a force that came up in the hour of need upon the west flank of the enemy." This shows clearly that the Ered Lómin was passable for troups. I think, both the Orcs and Círdans people used the pass or passes that Feanor and Fingolfin had used. And the first quote shows that these passed were at the head of the firth of Drengist. Respectfuly Findegil |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
![]() ![]() |
But does this not help raise the question of why Tuor used the Gate instead of the pass -- a pass of some kind that others appear to have used, or sought? Arguably one could use this pass, eventually climb into the ravine where it was less steep, and climb out again (now generally moving South) -- if dangerous, one would still be in the ravine as Tuor ended up in any case.
If the pass was well watched in Tuor's time, that could explain things, but at the moment I don't recall that being mentioned. Last edited by Galin; 01-22-2010 at 03:30 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |