WWLXXI: Something in the Night

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Okay, folks, I've discovered the three wolves. We can all go home now. ^_^

Okay, who's got the booze? I have the shotgun. So let's just wrap it and ride the cars into the sunset then.


To be a bit more serious, I think Wilwa raises a good point about the different dynamics this time around. But do we face three baddies as a team and their lovers attached to them individually (where lovers would be of secondary interest to the wolves), three pairs of baddies somewhat independent of each other (working foremostly as a lover pair for themselves), or wolves and their lovers forming a band of six baddies (okay, then we've lost already )...?

Knowing that would make our speculation easier. Gwath!

Although probably not toDay. Today I'll suggest getting rid of a submarine unless something worth trying out comes to the fore. The least damage and a possible jackpot rather than lynching a person who could be of real help or get her/himself caught by talking a lot. An original idea, isn't it?

I'll be back a little later with hopefully some more particular thoughts on things.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'll be back a little later with hopefully some more particular thoughts on things.

Well, on people I mean...

[Nogrod]

Sorry about the triple-post...

Thanks Gwath! Nice timing!
(see disc. thread)

[Rikae]

I forgot when the game was starting and almost missed day one. Doesn't look like I've missed much of substance, though: some IC posting (which is nice to read, but I can't participate - not really my kind of music),Loslote making what look like random accusations, Wilwa wondering about lovers, Nog calling for a submarine-lynch? In principle, I agree, if nothing better presents itself - but let's get this discussion rolling and see, shall we? I'm a bit confused about the lover roles myself - in fact, I'm going to take another look at the admin thread, since as I understand it the setup seems a bit lopsided in the wolves' favor, but maybe I'm misunderstanding it.
Back in a few minutes. Everyone accuse me while I'm gone, ok? Except you, alona.

[Rikae]

Just went to the admin thread - so, lover roles don't mean much in game terms, then. That's what I thought, before Nog confused matters above. A trick? Ciould be a wolfish sort, intended to turn innocents against each other, or an innocent's attempt to trick the wolves as well... Nog? Or just another of your patented Wild Theories?

[satansaloser2005]

A wolf, she's a wolf! Lynch her!

How do you know she's a wolf?

She votes like one!

Bring her forward.

I'm not a wolf, I'm not a wolf, I'm not a wolf.

Ah, but you are posting like one.

They started the discussion. And that wasn't a real vote, it was a retraction.

Well?

Well we did egg her on a bit. And start a bandwaggon. But she's a wolf.

A WOLF! LYNCH HER!

Did you make a completely unfounded case against her?

No, no. No. Yes. A bit. A bit. But she is evil a lot.

What makes you think she's a wolf?

Well she sent my name in for a Night kill.

A Night kill?

I....my lover's the ranger.

But she's a wolf!

A WOLF! LYNCH HER!

[Rikae]

Sally, best accusation ever - if that was about me, I just might have to vote for myself now.
By the way, the Wereduckling points at the screen and says you're a "kit-kat". We don't have werecats in this game, right?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

No, but Kit-Kats are something you eat... so the Wereduckling wants to eat Sally? So the Wereduckling is pointing out a kill for her wolvish mother! Dun dun dun.

Also, Sally, if I'm cheating on anyone, it's Alona.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Sally, best accusation ever - if that was about me, I just might have to vote for myself now.
By the way, the Wereduckling points at the screen and says you're a "kit-kat". We don't have werecats in this game, right?

Will you be Nilping yourself now or later? :P

Me? Lol I've not been called that since....erm, yeah, never, actually. Well, once, but the story can't be repeated.

Originally Posted by Shasta

No, but Kit-Kats are something you eat... so the Wereduckling wants to eat Sally? So the Wereduckling is pointing out a kill for her wolvish mother! Dun dun dun.

Also, Sally, if I'm cheating on anyone, it's Alona.

*is overcome with grief*

And what does Dun have to do with this?!?! (Heh.)





This lover discussion could get out of hand pretty quickly. My theory is that you want your lover to live and they give you extra insight, but if you're on the opposite side from your lover you might be in deep trouble, so it's smart to be careful what you say. The lovers are just for PMing purposes and to make the game a bit more fun. At least that's my opinion. Take me, for instance. My lover, whoever they might be, and I may be on different sides, but it's nice to have someone's 'honest' insight on things that they might not be able to say on the thread. Does that make sense?

*toddles off, comes back again later*

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Everyone accuse me while I'm gone, ok? Except you, alona.

I must have missed this on my first read through! I might accuse you. Not yet, though. Not evil in this game, so I don't have a fear of you picking up on weird vibes from me. Onward with Day 1, then, and the zany logic that will surely have us all spent!

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

To be a bit more serious, I think Wilwa raises a good point about the different dynamics this time around. But do we face three baddies as a team and their lovers attached to them individually (where lovers would be of secondary interest to the wolves), three pairs of baddies somewhat independent of each other (working foremostly as a lover pair for themselves), or wolves and their lovers forming a band of six baddies (okay, then we've lost already )...?

Knowing that would make our speculation easier. Gwath!

Goodness, hadn't even gone that close into it. I'm assuming their role as a Wolf would come before their role as a Lover, but without putting their Lover in harms way in the process. So their priority is a wolf win, but they would not harm their love in the process of obtaining that goal. But it could be the other way around as well...

because the traditional Lover role is that all they want is to be standing alive at the end of the game together, no matter which side wins. So wouldn't that make the goal for all of us, since we are all Lovers at this time, to be left standing at the end with our love? If that is the case, which I'm undestanding it to be, then it all depends on individual pairs, a wolf-wolf pairing, a wolf-innocent pairing, or an innocent-innocent pairing would all have different goals in attempting to survive til the end. So we may all at this time have the same primary goal (survive to the end with our love), but our secondary goals (which side we want to have win) is all dependent on what our role is and what our Lover's role is. Unless those two goals are intended to be the other way around and our Lover role is not intended to take priority, that's something Gwath needs to clarify I suppose....

Though once people start dying then Lover pairs will be torn apart, changing the goal of the Lover left behind from wanting to survive to the end -> to wanting their side to win, since now their role's goal is all that matters and their Lover goal is insignificant.

Goodness......

x'ed with Nog, going to check out discussion thread...

[wilwarin538]

Ok....so my last post is for the most part pointless now.

So basically we want our side to win foremost above all, but if we can survive to the end with our Lover that would be a just like an added bonus, not something we shouldn't necesarrily strive for? That's how I'm getting it anyway.

Alrighty then, glad for the clarification.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Though once people start dying then Lover pairs will be torn apart, changing the goal of the Lover left behind from wanting to survive to the end -> to wanting their side to win, since now their role's goal is all that matters and their Lover goal is insignificant.

My thoughts are pretty much along the same line. For the innocent-innocent and wolf-wolf lovers, the goals will pretty much never change - even if their lover dies, they'll still want the same side to win. The interesting dynamics will come into play when a wolf-innocent (we have that in this game, right? I'm terrible at counting sometimes) lover pair is torn apart. That could shift the balance either way. And let's not forget about our dear Ranger, Hunter and Seer. Imagine if their lover were anything other than dearly innocent!

Originally Posted by Rikae

Just went to the admin thread - so, lover roles don't mean much in game terms, then. That's what I thought, before Nog confused matters above. A trick? Ciould be a wolfish sort, intended to turn innocents against each other, or an innocent's attempt to trick the wolves as well... Nog? Or just another of your patented Wild Theories?

From what Form told me about lovers roles, they originally started out as a Romeo-Juliet type thing. Both fighting to survive to the end, even if they were on different sides. I'm still fairly new to this...so do we think we can apply this same logic to this game, being that there are only 12 of us, three guilty, three gifted, six innocent?

Originally Posted by Rikae

By the way, the Wereduckling points at the screen and says you're a "kit-kat". We don't have werecats in this game, right?

Your little darling wasn't talking about me again, was she?

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Also, Sally, if I'm cheating on anyone, it's Alona.

No kidding, dear. I'm about ready to ask for a divorce.


Side note: For those not at Bostonmoot, my last two comments above will make no sense whatsoever, apologies. Nor will Shasta's previous post.

[Inziladun]

All right, so apparently there was some confusion about the Lover Pairs and their loyalties regarding Romeo/Juliet (wolf/innocent) pairings. But that's cleared up now? I too had thought of what it might mean if Lovers turned their backs on the village and dedicated themselves to aiding the wolves. Not that something so hideous could ever happen.
It's good to have that clear, however.

So...still not too much going on, apart from the aforementioned discussions about the Lovers.

Let's see....Nog wants to get a submarine, Sally brings a Monty Python parody, Rikae makes me nervous just by being here...wereducklings....Shasta's quiet and enigmatic....in other words, a typical Day 1.
And I have to figure out who to vote for based on this. Fun stuff.

x/d with Alon

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Morsul

Billy was wrong

No, Billy was right!! Billy is actually quite happy to have returned to see all of these posts of chat and discussion rather then Noggy's usual Day 1 rants!

Okay, so no more in character/RPG style writing...although it was entertaining to write like that again.

I really have nothing much to say except that I do rather enjoy Wilwa's and Nogrod's thoughts and ideas on this whole Lover twist. Rather informative...perhaps a little too informative? Why try and delve further into it? Yes, I agree, it's good to actually recognize these things, but with all that information in it?? Hmmmm.....

Originally Posted by Shasta

No, but Kit-Kats are something you eat... so the Wereduckling wants to eat Sally? So the Wereduckling is pointing out a kill for her wolvish mother! Dun dun dun

We've found our Wolf!! Lynch her, lynch her!!

Also, Sally, if I'm cheating on anyone, it's Alona.

And what am I, chopeed liver!?

SIDE NOTE The two quotes above are in reference to Bostonmoot, so I apologize if you don't get them.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by alonariel

From what Form told me about lovers roles, they originally started out as a Romeo-Juliet type thing. Both fighting to survive to the end, even if they were on different sides. I'm still fairly new to this...so do we think we can apply this same logic to this game, being that there are only 12 of us, three guilty, three gifted, six innocent?

Yeah, that would be a normal lovers role, but the admin thread indicates these lovers are different... I've actually never played with roles like this before (can PM, not necessarily on the same side) and I'm not sure how it's going to work. Certainly any innocent who suspects their lover is a wolf should come out and say it, right? I mean, we're not necessarily on the same side as our lovers, and we shouldn't necessarily trust them... I suppose when some roles are known, though, lovers might have useful information (if we trust that they are actually the lovers of the person with the known role... and aren't evil...).
It sounds to me like a situation where leaving a trail, leaving hints that can't be detected until after the fact, could be especially useful... nothing obvious, of course... so our lovers can really be useful to the village in the event of our deaths.

[Rikae]

Also, alona and Glirdan... that's not very considerate toward those of us who weren't at Bostonmoot (I actually sent my evil, introverted twin, you know.)

I also totally do NOT still have a piece of paper with "wolf" written on it in my pocket. Oh... wait... Mac must have forgotten to check the pockets when he did the laundry...

[Isabellkya]

I definitely got confused for a few minutes about the changed dynamics involving all of the lovers. Thought the game had suddenly gotten way more complicated than it originally looked. xD

I don't think we need to play much more differently than normal. Though I don't agree with necessarily spilling all of the beans to our lover. Only ordo's can be attached to a wolf, no?


X'd with Wilwa and Rikae.

[Isabellkya]

Haha.
Had just realized the/a advantage the wolves could use. Tsk tsk!

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Only ordo's can be attached to a wolf, no?

Hm... good point, Izzy. I've been assuiming anyone could bE PairEd with anyone, but Gwath's original post does say ordos and wolves. Still, it could just be that he didn't spell it out. Gwath?

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

A note - even if two gifted ARE paired up, it doesn't follow that they're going to know each other's identities, so don't bank on that, people.

But wouldn't the gifteds profit from knowing each other's identities? A ranger and a hunter could coordinate or a hunter and a seer could definitely sniff out the wolves in no time. This comment doesn't make sense to me, Shasta...

Originally Posted by Rikae

Trouble is I have a history of going after Nog for saying something that looks bizarre/illogical at the time, and then finding out he's just an ordo... perhaps I'll vote for the other defender of HSW*s, Wilwa... or maybe go for a quiet one after all, though not Lari, since missing Day 1 totally probably has a RL explanation; perhaps Morsul, whose earlier posts unnerved me already.

She's at work! All day! ...Oh dear, I think she's going to kill me.

[alonariel]

Thoughts on toDay:

The whole debate between Rikae and Nog strikes me as Day 1 ordo-on-ordo, though time may tell a different story. I've always been rubbish at reading Rikae, and have never played with Nog before, so we'll see...

I only partially understand the votes for Wilwa. Yes, she does seem trying to be on everybody's good side, but were I in her shoes and had more time to post toDay, I probably would have ended up with the same musings on the lovers role. As it stands, I don't feel wolfishness from her all that much.

Morsul...I've never played with before, and therefore have no basis for comparison. Like Inzil said, he did jump on her bandwagon pretty quickly.

Lari has not posted yet because she is trapped in an eight-hour shift at work that should be ending soon - hopefully she'll get on and get in a post or two soon!

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Yes, the gifteds would profit from knowing each other's identities. I was just saying that even if, say, the Seer and Ranger are lovers, it doesn't follow that they're going to know that they're lovers with each other.

How would they not know? When I received my role, it clearly stated that I was a lover and who my lover was, just not their identity, only their name. Why would lovers not know they were lovers? *confused*

Okay, I see you've gone to bed - and I don't have my phone to pester you with texts, so I'll save that question for tomorrow.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Certainly any innocent who suspects their lover is a wolf should come out and say it, right? I mean, we're not necessarily on the same side as our lovers, and we shouldn't necessarily trust them... I suppose when some roles are known, though, lovers might have useful information (if we trust that they are actually the lovers of the person with the known role... and aren't evil...).

Well I don't think that's a fair request, it gives us too much of an advantage, I mean if the wolves' lovers just come out and say "hey, I think my love is a wolf" then that makes the game too easy and it's not really fair to the wolves. The whole lover thing may not be our priority but I think it is still important and involves some form of trust between lovers, even if they aren't on the same side, so anything said between lovers in private probably should not be shared on here without the other's permission (at least not directly). It would just give us way to much of an unfair advantage, and honestly would kinda ruin the game by making it way too easy.

The second half of what you said though, I agree with. Once your lover is dead if you think you know something that could help the village, then come forward and say it. But before then just feels like playing dirty, at least to me it does.

[Rikae]

I think if the wolves are smart, they're going to do their best to cover their tracks when talking to their lovers (assuming the lovers are innocent). After all, the rules are there in the admin thread for all to see. Actually, I'd expect them to try and trick the ordos into giving away their gifted/ordo status, too. Everyone, remember, lovers don't win together in this game, and be cautious (or even better, clever) in your dealings with lovers, please.
I don't see why it should be easy, or cheating, to play the roles we were given to the best of our ability - wolves have the potential to use the lover relationships to their advantage too, after all. I actually find it a bit suspicious that you're arguing this way, Wilwa.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I think if the wolves are smart, they're going to do their best to cover their tracks when talking to their lovers (assuming the lovers are innocent). After all, the rules are there in the admin thread for all to see. Actually, I'd expect them to try and trick the ordos into giving away their gifted/ordo status, too. Everyone, remember, lovers don't win together in this game, and be cautious (or even better, clever) in your dealings with lovers, please.
I don't see why it should be easy, or cheating, to play the roles we were given to the best of our ability - wolves have the potential to use the lover relationships to their advantage too, after all. I actually find it a bit suspicious that you're arguing this way, Wilwa.

I agree with this. It was pretty clear in the rules that wolves could be paired with people that weren't wolves.

Also, let's not forget that there is one traditional Lover pair. I wonder if they actually know they're the real Lovers, though?

Speaking of lovers... mine needs to empty their PM box.