Tolkien Compared to Contemporary Authors - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 12-30-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And even though she writes fantasy, I just have to nominate Ursula Le Guin, because she's so much more than your average fantasy writer. .

Me too - 'Always Coming Home' is one of the best examples of world creation in contemporary fiction.

Bêthberry · 12-30-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

Me too - 'Always Coming Home' is one of the best examples of world creation in contemporary fiction.

I wouldn't contest that, but I wonder, davem, if you know Robert Holdstock's Mythago Wood series? It seems something you would be keen on. He has a fascinating depiction of the forest that makes the Ents just too tame while his study of ancient British folklore is fascinating.

davem · 12-31-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I wouldn't contest that, but I wonder, davem, if you know Robert Holdstock's Mythago Wood series? It seems something you would be keen on. He has a fascinating depiction of the forest that makes the Ents just too tame while his study of ancient British folklore is fascinating.

I do - I mentioned in a thread I started on the 30th November http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=16022 about Robert Holdstock's untimely death that I read Mythago Wood & the sequel Lavondyss a few years back. I intend to return to them at some point, & maybe the rest of the series too if I find the time.

Bêthberry · 01-02-2010, 11:12 AM

Gah, sorry I missed that thread, davem. The entire series Mythago Woods is difficult to come by here, but he's definitely a master at contemporary fantasy without any of the post-modern trappings.

Dimturiel · 01-03-2010, 04:39 AM

I agree with onewhitetree's mention of Byatt. I was really impressed by Possession and, as I remember, there was a story there that had a very Tolkien feel to it. And then there was another of her works, Babel Tower that actually mentions Tolkien. That was another great book.

Also, although she is not exactly contemporary, I would mention Rosemary Sutcliff. She is a British writer of historical fiction for young adults who specializes in Roman Britian. Her works are atmospheric and she describes places and people with great detail. Her characters are also rather Tolkienish and she can write friendship almost as well as Tolkien can.

Then there is, of course, Ray Bradbury, a writer I fell in love with when I started reading his works in English. He is, for me, the only writer - apart from Tokien, of course - who is able to move me only by the words and phrases he uses. It is not what he writes about that impresses me - although his stories are interesting and thought-provoking in themselves - it is how he writes them, the style he uses that is sometimes almost poetic.

That is all I can think of right now, although there might be others that do not come to my mind just yet.

Pitchwife · 01-12-2010, 04:51 PM

Great topic, onewhitetree! And I absolutely concur about Byatt's Possession - a great and memorable read, and I like to think Ash's poetic use of Northern mythology would have delighted our Professor.
Among contemporary fantastists, my top three are Ursula LeGuin (who has been mentioned above), Stephen Donaldson (for narrative technique, character portrayal and piling up any kind of setback imaginable against his protagonists until the final breakthrough) and Patricia McKillip (who has a poet's skill with words - somehow the fantastic in her books seems to just naturally emerge from her use of images and metaphors).
As for contemporary non-fantastists, the most satisfying read I've come across for some years was Stieg Larsson's Millennium Trilogy - the end of Vol. 3, where a damaged and handicapped but strangely loveable character (I have a weak spot for those), with a little help from her friends, 'beats the system' and is vindicated against seemingly impossible odds, comes very close to Tolkienian eucatastrophe for me.

But if you go for sheer daring, scope and ambition, I'll have to mention two contemporaries of Tolkien's rather than of ourselves - both neglected modern classics, both unmistakeably original, and both also sharing our Prof's tendency to write books the size of a brick.
First, John Cowper Powys, author of (among others) Glastonbury Romance, Owen Glendower and, most notably, Porius: A Romance of the Dark Ages, an historical novel set in the days of Arthur and Merlin (both of whom are prominent characters in the book). Here we have an author who was just as fascinated with the mythology and history of Britain from Arthurian days to the late Middle Ages as Tolkien, but approached it from an entirely different angle - either (in Glastonbury Romance) using it as backdrop and subtext for a contemporary plot, or (in the other two) examining the characters of history and myth with a depth of psychological introspection comparable to, say, Dostoyevsky, while maintaining a firm connection with the supernatural. In Porius, especially, the thoughts and feelings of his characters, the natural changes in the landscape surrounding them and the stuff of myth and legend just seem to blend seemlessly with one another. Try to imagine D.H. Lawrence (the psychologist of the unconscious, not the sex-prophet) rewriting The Mists of Avalon, and you'll get a faint idea of what Porius is about.
Then, in my native German tongue, there's Hans Henny Jahnn, author of Fluss ohne Ufer (Shoreless River), a fragmentary novel trilogy which draws you into a world (or, what's the same to me, presents a compelling view of our world) as idiosyncratically the author's own as Tolkien's Middle-earth - although as far removed from Tolkien's faith and eucatastrophe as you can possibly get (Jahnn's credo can more or less be summed up by a famous quote from the novel "It is as it is, and it's terrible"). Here, Man (and it's primarily a book about men, which may deter some female readers - Jahnn was your classical closeted homosexual) is just a creature among creatures, floating on the subconscious current of hormonal processes that defy any rationalization. At the same time, the whole book is imbued with a deep, fierce love of nature (including an uncanny skill at describing, or rather evoking, nature and landscape) and compassion for all her suffering creatures that I can't help but think Tolkien would have sympathized with, whatever the philosophical differences. Unfortunately, as far as I could find out, only the first part (Das Holzschiff / The Ship) has been translated into English - which reveals about as much of the whole as The Hobbit does of Middle-earth; but those of you who can read German might give it a try - either you'll be exasperated and throw the book into the corner after Part I, or you'll be hooked for a journey to the dark side of the human mind.

davem · 01-12-2010, 05:00 PM

Pitchwife - I remember reading Porius many years ago, & its one of those books I keep meaning to go back to, for the very reasons you offer, so I'd add to your recommendation. Odd that you bring Powys up though - I'm going through a re-reading phase at the moment & A Glastonbury Romance is next on my pile ....

onewhitetree · 01-12-2010, 09:37 PM

I totally concur about Ray Bradbury - a quote of his that I live by: "Stuff your eyes with wonder" is just one example of his amazing gift of expression.

Porius has been recommended to me before - I am definitely putting it on my list.

01-02-2010, 11:12 AM	#4
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Gah, sorry I missed that thread, davem. The entire series Mythago Woods is difficult to come by here, but he's definitely a master at contemporary fantasy without any of the post-modern trappings. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

01-03-2010, 04:39 AM	#5
Dimturiel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2005 Location: the road less travelled by Posts: 910	I agree with onewhitetree's mention of Byatt. I was really impressed by Possession and, as I remember, there was a story there that had a very Tolkien feel to it. And then there was another of her works, Babel Tower that actually mentions Tolkien. That was another great book. Also, although she is not exactly contemporary, I would mention Rosemary Sutcliff. She is a British writer of historical fiction for young adults who specializes in Roman Britian. Her works are atmospheric and she describes places and people with great detail. Her characters are also rather Tolkienish and she can write friendship almost as well as Tolkien can. Then there is, of course, Ray Bradbury, a writer I fell in love with when I started reading his works in English. He is, for me, the only writer - apart from Tokien, of course - who is able to move me only by the words and phrases he uses. It is not what he writes about that impresses me - although his stories are interesting and thought-provoking in themselves - it is how he writes them, the style he uses that is sometimes almost poetic. That is all I can think of right now, although there might be others that do not come to my mind just yet. __________________ Is this the end? No more the hunt, the journey and the goal? That terrifies me most: no more the goal! -Ray Bradbury, Leviathan '99

01-12-2010, 04:51 PM	#6
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Great topic, onewhitetree! And I absolutely concur about Byatt's Possession - a great and memorable read, and I like to think Ash's poetic use of Northern mythology would have delighted our Professor. Among contemporary fantastists, my top three are Ursula LeGuin (who has been mentioned above), Stephen Donaldson (for narrative technique, character portrayal and piling up any kind of setback imaginable against his protagonists until the final breakthrough) and Patricia McKillip (who has a poet's skill with words - somehow the fantastic in her books seems to just naturally emerge from her use of images and metaphors). As for contemporary non-fantastists, the most satisfying read I've come across for some years was Stieg Larsson's Millennium Trilogy - the end of Vol. 3, where a damaged and handicapped but strangely loveable character (I have a weak spot for those), with a little help from her friends, 'beats the system' and is vindicated against seemingly impossible odds, comes very close to Tolkienian eucatastrophe for me. But if you go for sheer daring, scope and ambition, I'll have to mention two contemporaries of Tolkien's rather than of ourselves - both neglected modern classics, both unmistakeably original, and both also sharing our Prof's tendency to write books the size of a brick. First, John Cowper Powys, author of (among others) Glastonbury Romance, Owen Glendower and, most notably, Porius: A Romance of the Dark Ages, an historical novel set in the days of Arthur and Merlin (both of whom are prominent characters in the book). Here we have an author who was just as fascinated with the mythology and history of Britain from Arthurian days to the late Middle Ages as Tolkien, but approached it from an entirely different angle - either (in Glastonbury Romance) using it as backdrop and subtext for a contemporary plot, or (in the other two) examining the characters of history and myth with a depth of psychological introspection comparable to, say, Dostoyevsky, while maintaining a firm connection with the supernatural. In Porius, especially, the thoughts and feelings of his characters, the natural changes in the landscape surrounding them and the stuff of myth and legend just seem to blend seemlessly with one another. Try to imagine D.H. Lawrence (the psychologist of the unconscious, not the sex-prophet) rewriting The Mists of Avalon, and you'll get a faint idea of what Porius is about. Then, in my native German tongue, there's Hans Henny Jahnn, author of Fluss ohne Ufer (Shoreless River), a fragmentary novel trilogy which draws you into a world (or, what's the same to me, presents a compelling view of our world) as idiosyncratically the author's own as Tolkien's Middle-earth - although as far removed from Tolkien's faith and eucatastrophe as you can possibly get (Jahnn's credo can more or less be summed up by a famous quote from the novel "It is as it is, and it's terrible"). Here, Man (and it's primarily a book about men, which may deter some female readers - Jahnn was your classical closeted homosexual) is just a creature among creatures, floating on the subconscious current of hormonal processes that defy any rationalization. At the same time, the whole book is imbued with a deep, fierce love of nature (including an uncanny skill at describing, or rather evoking, nature and landscape) and compassion for all her suffering creatures that I can't help but think Tolkien would have sympathized with, whatever the philosophical differences. Unfortunately, as far as I could find out, only the first part (Das Holzschiff / The Ship) has been translated into English - which reveals about as much of the whole as The Hobbit does of Middle-earth; but those of you who can read German might give it a try - either you'll be exasperated and throw the book into the corner after Part I, or you'll be hooked for a journey to the dark side of the human mind. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

01-12-2010, 05:00 PM	#7
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Pitchwife - I remember reading Porius many years ago, & its one of those books I keep meaning to go back to, for the very reasons you offer, so I'd add to your recommendation. Odd that you bring Powys up though - I'm going through a re-reading phase at the moment & A Glastonbury Romance is next on my pile .... __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

01-12-2010, 09:37 PM	#8
onewhitetree Seeker of Syntax Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Scene of the Crime Posts: 264	I totally concur about Ray Bradbury - a quote of his that I live by: "Stuff your eyes with wonder" is just one example of his amazing gift of expression. Porius has been recommended to me before - I am definitely putting it on my list. __________________ onewhitetree (also known as Kate) Well, I'M BACK.