Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

In this sort of culture, it would be the norm for somebody to be going out and milking in the morning, for kids to be set to collecting eggs from wherever the hens have hidden them, for buckets of milk to be sitting in a cool place, and for girls about Aedre's age to be boredly churning butter.

I took it so for granted I never even mentioned it. As a center of business more than a farm, they certainly wouldn't have all their own livestock (whereas Degas is clearly the lord of a rural holding where the number of piglets and ladybugs is of massive import), but they'd have the basics: milk and eggs close enough that they needn't be transported.

Like I thought as well. So the household-staff (basically the kitchen staff) could do it.


On another note: Are you guys willing to post in reaction to Javan's hearing or should we step forwards? Lithor's hearing (and W & W's) is more or less ready and could be posted as well. So what do we do: wait for reactions (or other possible posts), or bring things forwards?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Like I thought as well. So the household-staff (basically the kitchen staff) could do it.

Yes. And if Nienna is interested/willing, gathering eggs and/or churning butter might be a very good task to keep Aedre out of mischief.

It can be safely assumed that Frodides (or someone else, if they want to have done it) has been milking the cow or cows (I don't see more than two, really; enough milk for baking would be all they'd need, and they wouldn't want so much it would spoil) in the mornings, and the kids have probably had to go looking for eggs unless there's a hen coop. Hens are jerks, really, about trying to get their offspring to hatch via stealth egg-laying in sneaky places. But it would be so much a matter of routine that it wouldn't likely be incorporated into story parts of the story, if you follow me.

Like eating or sleeping: it's just part of the normal day.

[Folwren]

Nogrod, I think it'd be interesting to have Javan and Raban meet. Just a thought.

I'm off to bed now, folks.

-- Foley

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ah, poor Javan. It's hard to realize the point of learning discipline until you've learned it.

[Groin Redbeard]

Wow, the trial turned out different than I imagined it. Where was Aedre? Where were the witnesses? One man jury and prosecutor and the accused is also the defendant. It was more of a show, it was already clear that Javan was going to be guilty all that needed to be found out was what on. Should not Aedre also share in a punishment for not behaving lady like? In this case I find Athanar's iron fisted rule to be anything but compassionate or fair.

I do not find humiliation in-front of the entire hall to be a better punishment than a good swat and the bottom. The verdict was a clever and just one, but I think since the offense was private, Thornden, Wynflaed, and Athanar should have done it in private and not make a "trial" out of it.

Love the writing, but disagree with the outcome. Now you know where I am coming from.

[Folwren]

The offence wasn't private, and nor was there any question about who did it. They weren't concerned with why he did, only that he shouldn't have done it. So, I think that they didn't need witnesses.

You're right - we forgot Aedre altogether. Oh well.

As for the outcome, it came as much as surprise to me as it did to everyone else. I liked the decision. I don't think it was very humiliating. I think the fact the was tried by the eorl because he hit the eorl's daughter was fitting.

I agree, though, that Aedre does deserve some form of punisment.

Thanks for posting Groin...even if I did write back to refute all your arguments, I still liked hearing your opinion. I just wanted to try to explain things, not so much as argue things.

-- Foley

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Folwren

As for the outcome, it came as much as surprise to me as it did to everyone else. I liked the decision. I don't think it was very humiliating. I think the fact the was tried by the eorl because he hit the eorl's daughter was fitting.

I'm thinking of a Benjamin Franklin saying when I mentioned humiliation: "It is perfectly acceptable to humiliate people in private, they might even thank you for it later. However, when you do it in public they tend to think you are serious." Love Mr. BF.

Originally Posted by Foley

Thanks for posting Groin...even if I did write back to refute all your arguments, I still liked hearing your opinion. I just wanted to try to explain things, not so much as argue things.

You have a good head on your shoulders. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as well.

Nogrod, you ready to post Lithor's trial next?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Foley

we forgot Aedre altogether

Well, I didn't... But it was clear lord Athanar would not wish to draw her there into any discussions. What he (and Wynflaed) would do with Aedre would be their personal decision - and a private one.

So it was not a question of a trial in a democratic society where impartial judges weigh all the parties to the row and then try to find a just verdict but - as Groin said - a show. But a show put up for a reason. If the bodily integrity of someone belonging to the lord's family is violated, there is no lord who could just leave the matter be. Such offences must be somehow dealt with in public.

Heh, I think if Athanar would be "an ironfisted" leader (as Groin so nicely puts it) he would just have announced the sentence after the breakfast, and it probably wouldn't have been such a considerate one either.


And as we're on our way to Lithor's hearing I'd like to point to the same issue. I don't think a medieval / Middle-Earthish / feudal eorl would have to consult anyone - or even hear anyone - when he makes decisions on disciplinary issues concerning his subordinates. So I think lord Athanar is showing some real consideration and goodwill letting Lithor speak publicly in the first place - and letting what he (and especially Thornden) says affect his judgement. That's why I have tried to use the word "hearing" all the time.

Okay. The mini-novel called Lithor's hearing will be posted soonish...