Christopher Lee - not in RoTK?

[Huscarl]

I'm sorry if this topic has been raised a 1000 times (I searched the board first, honest!), but why was Lee not in the third installment, or at least why was his part completely cut?

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

Originally Posted by Huscarl

I'm sorry if this topic has been raised a 1000 times (I searched the board first, honest!), but why was Lee not in the third installment, or at least why was his part completely cut?

I'll let Peter Jackson answer this himself:

"The problem is that the sequence was originally shot for The Two Towers, as it is in the book. Since The Two Towers couldn't sustain a 7 min "wrap" after Helm's Deep, we thought it would be a good idea to save it for the beginning of the Return of the King. The trouble is, when we viewed various ROTK cuts over the last few weeks, it feels like the first scenes are wrapping last year's movie, instead of starting the new one. We felt it got ROTK off to an uncertain beginning, since Saruman plays no role in the events of ROTK (we don't have the Scouring later, as the book does), yet we dwell in Isengard for quite a long time before our new story kicks off.

We reluctantly made the decision to save this sequence for the DVD. The choice was made on the basis that most people will assume that Saruman was vanquished by the Helm's Deep events, and Ent attack. We can now crack straight into setting up the narrative tension of ROTK, which features Sauron as the villian. "

from: http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=16462

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings

I'll let Peter Jackson answer this himself:

"The problem is that the sequence was originally shot for The Two Towers, as it is in the book. Since The Two Towers couldn't sustain a 7 min "wrap" after Helm's Deep, we thought it would be a good idea to save it for the beginning of the Return of the King."

You see, that's a major problem with The Two Towers, the daftest of the three LotR movies. Rather than including Saruman's Orthanc scene, which is a natural aspect of TTT, Jackson instead wasted a 1/2 hour of film time having Aragorn falling off a cliff and then frenching his horse, and also having a degenerate Faramir dragging Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath, where Frodo offers the ring to a Nazgul (who naturally flies away rather than calling his brethren and attacking Frodo immediately). Neither the Aragorn or Faramir scene were necessary in further developing the plot, nor did either offer any interesting perspective or character development over the book's original plot.

Whereas the Saruman scene offered closure for the Saruman character (and I suppose he had to die at Orthanc because they already decided not to film the Scouring of the Shire). Honestly, the Saruman scene would have had a greater impact on the theater version TTT, rather than either the lame Aragorn or Faramir sequence. I know my appreciation of the film would have been greater if the one scene was added and the other two were edited out.

In fact, there is so much inane directorial and script manipulation in TTT that I really haven't watched it in its entirety for several years.

[Huscarl]

Thanks guys- but were Lee's own personal (or public) views on the matter of being 'cut' onto the studio floor?

He- a veteran actor respected worldwide?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Huscarl

Thanks guys- but were Lee's own personal (or public) views on the matter of being 'cut' onto the studio floor?

He was not happy in the least, particularly since he was very much an ardent follower of Tolkien's work for many decades prior to the making of the movie. He tried to be polite about it in interviews, but his disgust was evident. David Wenham, who played Faramir, was equally dismayed at the treatment his character received in the movies, but I don't believe he actually read the books until after the fact. Had he done so he most likely would've been apppalled.

[Mithalwen]

That is interesting - I read an interview with Wenham where he trotted out the (party) line that Faramir was dramatically dull and so had to be changed. If he hadn't actually read the book it would make far more sense that he hadn't objected to the second greatest man (IMO) in English Literature being turned in to a git.

It was quite clear that Lee was unhappy - not that actors often like their roles cut or minimised, but Sir Christopher reread the book each year since publication and had met Tolkien. He quite probably knew and loved the book at least as well if not anyone on the production.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

That is interesting - I read an interview with Wenham where he trotted out the (party) line that Faramir was dramatically dull and so had to be changed. If he hadn't actually read the book it would make far more sense that he hadn't objected to the second greatest man (IMO) in English Literature being turned in to a git.

I believe he mentioned the disparity and difference in nobility from book Faramir to movie Faramir somwhere on the extended version DVD's. Or maybe I am merely being appalled for him.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

In fact, there is so much inane directorial and script manipulation in TTT that I really haven't watched it in its entirety for several years.

You've a stronger stomach than I have, Gunga Din. I watched it once in a theatre and then never again.

Mind you, with a new wide screen TV here and some marthon movie viewing over the holidays, that might possibly change. I will have to make sure I discipline myself enough not to throw popcorn at the screen.

[Mugwump]

I've watched the longer DVD version so many times I'd forgotten he wasn't in the theatrical release.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Mugwump

I've watched the longer DVD version so many times I'd forgotten he wasn't in the theatrical release.

Who?



Even considering the explanation, I think it must have been rather unsatisfying for viewers who had not read the book. The main direct villain from the first two films is left in limbo and they can assume only that he didn't have a particularly happy end. It's incomplete, I tell you!

Christopher Lee spoke with The Guardian about going back to New Zealand to do some pick-up shots for The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.

"I cannot wait for Return of the King. It is the climax and people will get an overall picture of Middle Earth and of Tolkien. I want people to appreciate what has been achieved. Before Lord of the Rings, some people would have just classed Peter Jackson as a horror director. But there is a mind there. Somebody once asked me how I found Peter Jackson and I said: 'Well, I parted his hair and there he was'. Look what he has done. He persuaded New Line to invest in making three films at the same time. When I first read Lord of the Rings I wanted to see a film of it. But at that time the technology wasn't there, there was no such thing as CGI."

As it happens, Lee seems as eager to watch the final film as the fans. Either that, or he's playing coy about the details. "I am very excited about Return of the King. [I want] to see how they have done it. I have only seen a few short rushes of the film and I am still not sure how it ends. If I did, I still couldn't tell you. I have, however seen the schedule for Return of the King and it is hectic. The premiere is in Wellington then it is something like Berlin first, London the day after and then Copenhagen the day after that. "

But the event that Lee seems to have set his sights on is next year's Academy Awards. "They can't not give awards to The Return of the King," he insists, still smarting from the way the previous two films were passed over on Oscar night. "When there were no best picture or best director awards for The Fellowship, I thought it was a disgrace. The other [nominated films] were good movies but they did not even compare. You can't compare anything to these films. You cannot compare it with Star Wars or the Matrix, which I didn't understand a word of. There will never be anything like it again. I am very lucky to in this late stage of my career to have worked with Tim Burton, Peter Jackson, George Lucas. I love to work and to be able to still be working is wonderful, after all how many roles are there for 81 year olds. It has been hard work but definitely worth it."