WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

We could not have foreseen yet the vastness of the cavernous maze that we have entered. The corridor through which we have been following the trail of the thing that once used to be our marine biologist was but a crack in the wall, wide enough for us to walk through in a line, with uneven floor and walls of basaltic rock. It was seemingly but one of the many shafts piercing the heart of the island, a feature quite common inside such land masses of volcanic origin, but unforeseen by explorers such as Vize and Schmidt, who have likely been to these parts of the Arctic. The fact that this cavern was free of ice and water implied that the complex - however likely descending under the sea level - never surfaced with any of its many shafts except at the very top, the once ice-corked crevasse through which we have entered.

We have had enough electric torches with enough power for many hours of walk, however, we have decided to save the batteries as much as we can and thus only three at a time have been lit. We were all curious how the creature we followed could see in this underground darkness - yet this has been once again the source of the debate mainly for our two remaining biologists. Meanwhile, the rest of us have been following the trail and eventually, we were forced to make a decision. The way in front of us split into two and now we could not find any trails of blood at the crossing. That meant we could either give up, continue blindly through one of the corridors or split. We were not too keen on either of these options, but we did not want to leave without the confirmation of our former crewmember's fate. Eventually, we decided to split and to walk just a short distance through both of the corridors to see if we can find any further trail in either of them. Our pilot would remain at the crossing and wait.

These have been the two ill-fated mistakes we have made. The first one we realised when an inhuman scream came from the crossing where we have left our pilot, and running back, we could not find anything more than his mutilated body lying on the icy stone floor in the cold light of our electric torches. There was no trace of the attacker anymore, yet we could be sure that even in the darkness nobody got past us.

The second mistake, as I see now clearly, was to continue in our foolish pursuit into the depths of that forbidding cavernous maze at all.


LIVING MEMBERS OF THE EXPEDITION:

Boromir88 - senior assistant to a professor of glaciology
Loslote - rich funder's spoiled daughter
Morsul - federal grants lawyer
Brinn - polar bear biologist
Nogrod - old palaeoecologist with is own theory of climate change
Macalaure - palaeomathematician
sally - the original initiator of the expedition
Thinlómien - whale expert
Nerwen - mechanic
Bes - room/store manager
Shasta - sled-dog handler
wilwa - crewmember

GONE:
Roa - survival guide - died on blood loss from Werewolf attack on Day 2 (left game, innocent)
Mnemosyne - field medic - shot by the survival guide on Day 2 (Werewolf)
Inziladun - meteorologist - killed by Werewolves on Night 3 (innocent)
tromkehra - cook/bartender - left aboard the ship on Day 3 (left game, innocent)
Nienna - navigator - shot on her way back to the ship on Day 3 (innocent)
Greenie - senior assitant to important scientists in the company, killed by Werewolf on Night 4 (innocent)
Pitchwife - marine biologist - unambiguously executed by the expedition on Day 4 (Werewolf)
Eomer of the Rohirrim - sea pilot - murdered in the icy darkness on Night 5 (innocent)

Day 5 starts. Night PMers stop, all people talk. You know how it goes.

[satansaloser2005]

Wow. Definitely not what I'd expected.

[Morsul the Dark]

Taking Nienna's approach no long quotes here!
Bes

Bes 39
Doesn't want anyone to vote... why? Although we now know the votes were basically just a Formality...

then a bunch of posts like "Here and Reading..." "Sorry not on too much..."

Bes 156 Take Inzil's arguments and votes Mac...

Bes 252
Admits to backpedalling... Newbie mistake or cleverly playing Newbie card (I did it my first game...)

Bes 262 Makes a summary of Mac's post... maybe to defend her vote for him though she earlier admitted to not thinking it through sounds like misdirection to me.

Bes 416 Makes a reference to not being around That phrase always strikes me as an odd one always a slight "I'm not a wolf I Promise" statement.

Bes 470 Pulls a Mac, "Good Points against me" then goes on to denounce Lotie's reveal.

Bes 512 Continues on Lottie and votes for her... at least she's consistent...

A couple of newbie posts follow... I think she may be playing that card to its full potential.

Bes 671 Why would you try not to vote Pitch?

Lastly: Bes 673 Everything someone says or doesn't say makes them suspicious... including you Bes... Including you

[Nogrod]

Hey Morsul, I think Bes is a he... (not the first time in this game)

But good notions - the last ones I mean. He really could be seen trying to avoid the inevitable...

[Bes]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Taking Nienna's approach no long quotes here!
Bes

Bes 39
Doesn't want anyone to vote... why? Although we now know the votes were basically just a Formality...

then a bunch of posts like "Here and Reading..." "Sorry not on too much..."

Bes 156 Take Inzil's arguments and votes Mac...

Bes 252
Admits to backpedalling... Newbie mistake or cleverly playing Newbie card (I did it my first game...)

Bes 262 Makes a summary of Mac's post... maybe to defend her vote for him though she earlier admitted to not thinking it through sounds like misdirection to me.

Bes 416 Makes a reference to not being around That phrase always strikes me as an odd one always a slight "I'm not a wolf I Promise" statement.

Bes 470 Pulls a Mac, "Good Points against me" then goes on to denounce Lotie's reveal.

Bes 512 Continues on Lottie and votes for her... at least she's consistent...

A couple of newbie posts follow... I think she may be playing that card to its full potential.

Bes 671 Why would you try not to vote Pitch?

Lastly: Bes 673 Everything someone says or doesn't say makes them suspicious... including you Bes... Including you

39: A question is not the same as a desire. People harp on this post a lot, and at this point it's starting to make me giggle. People explained why there's reliably a vote every day, even if not everyone gets a vote in, and it made sense. You may have noticed I voted that Day.

262: Just a note, male. Short, monosyllabic handles tend to be difficult to read gender cues from, I know.

671: Because I still didn't feel right about Lottie; I had every reason, from my own point of view, to suspect Lottie of mischief. A lot of people still do suspect Lottie for that reveal, I'm noticing. Of course I'm going to feel crap about potentially lynching an innocent. We know now that Pitch was a wolf, but at the time my and several other votes were "So, this person is kind of suspicious, and Lottie says she's a Seer. Let's throw him/her under the bus as a litmus test for her sincerity." That would have looked just lovely for me if he/she turned out to be innocent, wouldn't it?

673: Yes, that would be the point of the post.

I don't really feel a need/desire to correct the other portions of the post analysis.

Edit: Crossed with Nog.

[Nogrod]

Bes! I think the most important post by you was this vote-post for Lottie you made:

Originally Posted by Bes #512

As usual, I don't have much time today. I don't agree with the notion that Lottie's reveal makes sense, since as has been mentioned and re-mentioned, her being lynched today before she made that post was hardly likely. If she's a wolf, then this would be a good way to get the Ranger out of the way, so if a real seer pops up later they would have no defense against accidental lynching.

I need to make a vote today, so at the risk of looking suspicious my vote goes for Lottie. I'd ask if lynching her could prevent the Ranger from potentially being lost to a false seer, which is my hope, but by the time I will be able to read the answer the night will have begun.

It is a valid thing to question Lottie's revealment - I did it and some others did it. And I had already voiced my suspicion that the wolves might wish to make a "free kill" making the ranger protect one of their own... That's all fine and dandy. Even if I don't quite understand what you mean by:

then this would be a good way to get the Ranger out of the way, so if a real seer pops up later they would have no defense against accidental lynching.

If you mean a Night kill instead of "lynching" I might understand but otherwise I lost track with you there.

But what is important here IMO is that we just couldn't waste the opportunity to check whether what Lottie said was right. Actually we could have lynched her first and see what role she was given and then lynch Pitch toDay, but why to do it that way? If Lottie has the secret role the wolves would like to gamble on that as they wouldn't know what the role is - if she was a cobbler for instance, then the suspicions laid by her on Pitchie could be downplayed the next Day. So from an ordo perspective checking Pitch first was a clear marching order.

Yes, I do not say that Pitch being a wolf cleared Lottie. On the contrary. It might be one of these tragic stories where a community must check one of it's helpers just to be sure before the end - to be sure a sneaky wolf didn't fool us. But that's a different question.

What I sees suspicious of you Bes is that the way you wanted it to go was the way the wolves would have wanted it to go; to lynch Lottie first. I see no reason an innocent would wish to suggest that order but could see the wolves to wish that.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Just a thought - the main reason Lottie dreamt of Pitch was the fact that Pitch was pushing for her dream to be used on Bes. After the wolf-on-wolfery between Pitch and Mnemo, I'm not sure Pitch would set up yet another of his comrades that way.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

On Mac:

Let's document Mac's thoughts on Pitch.

#27 - "innocent feel"
#57 - Possible suspicious comment regarding the Boroversy
#112 - from "innocent" to "unsure"
#139 - has Pitch in the "I would like to avoid voting" category
#155 - flops back to "innocent"
#217 - would like to take a closer look at Pitch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mnemo say the exact same thing?
#274 - uncomfortable with suspecting Pitch as others are now doing.
#313 - back to thinking Pitch innocent.
#460 - vacillates on Pitch, again finding him innocent due to Inzil's death (huh?)
#481 - still feels good about Pitch here.

This is the main reason I suspect Mac. I'm unsure how I'll feel about him once I've taken a closer look at Mac by himself, but until I manage that he's a possible vote for me.

On Boro:

Originally Posted by Boro

Even though if there are 4 of them, this is a large group of scientists, and scheming to lose a wolf on the 1st-lynch makes wolf-on-wolf less likely.

Then, later down in the same post:

Originally Posted by Boro

I'm calling yesterday Day 2, and the previous Day 1. On Day 1, Mnemo acquired 3-votes, so it is likely they all recognized she was going to be in possible danger. So, going into Day 2, even though there was no lynch, she and her buddies knew she could be a viable lynch. Therefor, I find it more likely that a wolf could have voted for her, or applied suspicion on her at some point in the day, in an attempt to make him/herself look better.

These two statements are clearly contradictory. Also, you voted for Inzil instead of Eomer, though you were more suspicious of Eomer. Now, I'll buy your reasoning (that you'd suspected Inzil for longer and hadn't been answered), but something about the way you said it doesn't sit right with me.

Originally Posted by Boro

Lommy said she was "detached." A wolf doesn't say that, plain and simple.

Absolutes like the above are very bad. You can't say for certainty that a wolf wouldn't say that.

Originally Posted by Boro

If you weren't all that suspicious of Inzil in the first place, then why jump on Nerwen's vote?

Putting words in my mouth, are you? I became suspicious of Nerwen because I thought it looked like she was trying to kill Mac. It had nothing to do with saving Inzil.

Originally Posted by Boro

Then his Day 2 vote is suspicious, not in wilwa's way, but by adding in another name to the pot a Shasta-wolf could have been hoping Mnemo would have gotten lost in the mix of names.

I was suspicious ofNerwen, so I voted for her. I don't see what's so suspicious about that.

Originally Posted by Boro

2. She disclosed details about the role. When wolves make a fake reveal how much detail do you think they want to get into? That's rhetorical, but I'll say it anyway, as little as possible.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. See my major post near the end of the day we lynched Nienna (don't know the number off the top of my head) for details.


In hindsight, what I have on Boro isn't as bad as I thought it was - mainly his contradictory statements about Mnemo and wolf-on-wolfery, and his vote for Inzil over Eomer (both innocent). Still, he's a suspect of mine.


I'm also suspicious of Wilwa, but I'm afraid that might be groupthink. I'll do my best to take a look at her as well.

[Nerwen]

Here and reading.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Eomer? Not who I'd have expected. I was going to look at him today, too... well, I can still look at my two top suspects, Mac and Boro, and so I shall.

Edit: X'd with Sally. How dare you steal my phrasing!

[satansaloser2005]

Also, why doesn't Eomer have a role? Legate, are you absent-minded or tricksy?


ETA: Neener neener, my precious. Your kung fu is not strong.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, why doesn't Eomer have a role? Legate, are you absent-minded or tricksy?

Well, both, but in this case more like the former. Sorry, corrected now.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, both, but in this case more like the former. Sorry, corrected now.

Heh. Okay; I just didn't want to jump to conclusions if it was an ommission or let it slide if it wasn't, so I decided to ask.


Biggest. Headache. Ever. I'll be taking a nap after work and then I'll get back over here.

[Boromir88]

[sarcasm] *shocked* [/sarcasm]

What's with the shock? Maybe he was looking slightly suspicious, but I doubt he was going to be a serious suspect for a while...with all the other suspicious looking people out here.

I'm kind of surprised it wasn't Lottie, but it's not all that surprising if she only gets one dream. The wolves are risking keeping a known innocent around, and trying to trick us into thinking she's a wolf, because she's not dead. Although, I'm not sure it's a good idea, because I'm not falling for it, as far as I'm concerned Lottie's a known innocent. If she only gets one dream, it looks like they will try to take out bigger threats.

I'm still feeling good about Nerwen, Mac, and Nog. I'm not sure about sally or Morsul. I need to take closer looks at Lommy, Brinn, and Bes (based on the Day Nienna was lynched - it might not have been the worst loss to suffer, but there was a lot of tricky looking behavior towards the DL) and Shasta + wilwa remain my top suspects.

[Thinlómien]

Yes, but some people are suspected even less...

like Bes or Nerwen...

or like you, Mac and Nogrod. I'm starting to think that you all (and me too) are still alive because one of us is a wolf.

That's kind of crappy news because I really don't suspect any of you. So either somebody's fooling me quite brilliantly (Nogrod?) or I am a wolf myself, no, not that but I had to leave it there because it was sort of the logical continuation of the sentence but definitely not what I'm thinking or I'm getting paranoid (which is not good news either) either because the wolves are intending people to get paranoid because of the "veteran loudmouths" all surviving or because it's just random we're all alive.

So, what am I trying to say?

That I'm surprised Eomer died, because I would've assumed to find Bes, Nerwen or Mac to be found dead, or possibly Nog or Boro (or Sally actually) or even Loslote. Eomer is one of the ones who I thought is certainly not dying, I would've seen my own death as more probable than his (at least some people think I'm innocent while more or less everyone seems to be suspecting Eomer to some degree).

And that the slightly prolonged survival of all us "veteran loudmouths" makes me wonder if we others are alive mostly/partly for cover. That has happened many times before. I'm far from convinced that this is true, but it makes me more wary of my fellow "veteran loudmouths" ie Boro, Mac and Nog.

*is making process in learning to phrase things more clearly*


edit: xed with Nogrod

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How come you say he was so much suspected Lommy? I have quite a different view of it.

I thought he was more or less on everybody's guilty list, although hardly ever the top suspect...? I can't recall anyone saying he's probably innocent, but I recall many people suspecting him at least a little.

Originally Posted by Boro

I would also like to point out, before heading out to dinner, Greenie the day before, Eomer last night...looks like they're going for the ones who voted Mnemo twice. This leaves Lommy still alive, either the wolves have deemed you easier to turn suspicion against, you could be next, or you're a wolf trying to make yourself look better.

Interesting thoughts. I never thought of it that way. But I doubt I'm going to be next after you said that (...thanks? ). And I hardly need suspicion "turned" against me since already quite a few villagers suspect me - but if I'm right about what people said about Eomer yesterDay, it doesn't make much sense either. And if I was a wolf, I think that would be a rather stupid to make myself look better because reading your post it seems to make me look "worse" (at least from my own perspective, but I'm the only one who knows my role so maybe it affects other people differently, who knows).

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

the slightly prolonged survival of all us "veteran loudmouths" makes me wonder if we others are alive mostly/partly for cover. That has happened many times before. I'm far from convinced that this is true, but it makes me more wary of my fellow "veteran loudmouths" ie Boro, Mac and Nog.

I have been thinking about the same... although I might add Nerwen to the pile...

I try to go to sleep a bit earlier today as I'm in Bronchitis - but as a result of that I'm having a day off from work tomorrow and might use some of the time to actually read and post here more (sadly I have to read a bunch of exams as well even if I have a sick-leave).

I'll stick around a while though if I can come up with any good idea where to look at before going to sleep.

[Nogrod]

Actually I was not that surprised... At least I can't right now remember anyone suspecting him heavily yesterDay - did someone even mention him?

How come you say he was so much suspected Lommy? I have quite a different view of it.

But be what it may, yesterDay's voting probably is kind of a store of mainly futile information.

So what do we say of Lottie? As I said yesterDay the wolves will not kill her so it's up to us to decide (sorry Sally, I saw you hinting at me giving the wolves info late yesterDay but really they would see it anyway - and if I was a wolf I would have rather told them that during the Night and not talk of it in open - which I thought I should do as I couldn't know whether I was alive toDay or not).

Well, she gave us a wolf and I would say we should search for the remaining two elsewhere for a Day or two... but if we don't get them we should lynch her before the numbers start evening out. Just to be on the safe side.

Okay. The good news: the deaths are 6:2 (of which two are resignments, so actually 4:2 gamingwise) but we're having still 10:2. Pretty good ratios, I'd say. Juts keeping with this ratio we win. And even if we had help there looking back we now have all the material to read to guide us further.

[Boromir88]

I would also like to point out, before heading out to dinner, Greenie the day before, Eomer last night...looks like they're going for the ones who voted Mnemo twice. This leaves Lommy still alive, either the wolves have deemed you easier to turn suspicion against, you could be next, or you're a wolf trying to make yourself look better.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, why doesn't Eomer have a role? Legate, are you absent-minded or tricksy?


ETA: Neener neener, my precious. Your kung fu is not strong.

ESP beats kung fu any day, my little Labrador [/theatre reference].

Or the Force, for that matter.

[Thinlómien]

I'm surprised too, to be honest.

With his amount of gathered suspicion, I think they thought him gifted. Or then they were being tricksy.


edit: xed with mod and Shasta