WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'm flip-flopping on Nerwen so badly. I didn't take her questions towards me as attacks, but the way she tries to downplay it as purely innocent questioning about me being unclear and pointing out the obvious, makes me nervous.

Boro, I was of course probing you a bit. However, it was just innocent questioning, and saying it wasn't an "attack"– as Mac described it– isn't "downplaying" anything.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

However, today she's pointed out that we should read into all those who found merit in Nog's case against Roa, since we now know Roa is an ordo. The problem is she doesn't inquire any further, making it look like a red-herring "look here, go get distracted on this" plus, isn't Nerwen over-hyping the suspicion against Roa?

All I said was that the people who fell in with Nogrod's weird case on Roa– I think Eomer was one– are worth looking at. As I intend to, as soon as I have time, which I haven't yet. It's a valid, indeed an obvious, line of inquiry; whether it will lead anywhere is another matter.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

IThe fact is, Roa wasn't the only one who got on me about it, she was just the loudest one. Inzil, Nerwen, Shasta, Morsul, Pitch, Eomer, and Bes all stated disagreement or suspected me because of it and Nerwen trying to downplay it worries me. It might not have been "everyone" but it was a rather large number of people. You also tried to downplay it by saying that it's possible a wolf would ignore it completely (would you call that obvious?) Then when people saw the point I was trying to make, and how my original response to Inzil got misrepresented people started jumping off one wagon and onto another...the "I don't like how everyone was jumping onto Boro wagon."

You can't tell me there isn't some screwy wolf involvement going on in that pile of people?

I'm not telling you that... however, the circumstance under which I made my "molehill" remark was that the first three people to question you (Me, Zil, Roa) were the ones coming under attack for it... Nogrod even had a theory of Roa and I being wolves together, based on the fact that a.) we both criticised you and b.) I defended her against his silly case. I maintain that was a serious overreaction. I'd made exactly two posts questioning you and both of them were perfectly reasonable. Look, Boro, it really wasn't clear what you meant.

Now, later there were people who just parrotted us, or even jumped straight to suspecting you– Bes and Morsul spring to mind. Even then, some of those you're listing just said, "meh, pointless topic". (Note: this is from memory, so don't shoot me if I've mixed up who did what.)

Okay... so... I'm not liking these points you're making against me here, Boro. They seem kind of twisty.

EDIT:X'd since Mnemo at #263.

[Mnemosyne]

Okay, I've looked at Loslote, and things look bad for her. Summarize one person's post and then vote? Really?

At the same time, how wolvish is that?

At any rate she cannot defend herself for the rest of toDay so I'm willing to let her rest and then come down hard on her toMorrow.

Which means that I'm going for the one person I have a concrete, rational reason to suspect at all:

++Pitchwife

I will be available nearer the end of the day, but hopefully voting now will allow me to better focus on what's going on for the rest of the Day.

Again, people, don't vote at the last minute please... YesterDay looked pretty insane.

Finally, to Mac: If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?

[Nerwen]

Okay, now I have looked at the people who followed Nog's case on Roa, and– surprise! surprise! One of them was Boro.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But it looks so much like purpose slip, because I know what Nog is talking about and I double-checked the captain's notes even before your number slip. You gasp about wolves, and then for some reason give the number of them, but it's the wrong number.

I admit I scan the rules and am liable to miss things, but if someone can't get the number of wolves correct, or the roles that's either plain laziness to not read the captain's notes or someone's faking ignorance. And in this circumstance the number of wolves was stated in more than one place. You are anything but lazy in your analysis Roa, to state the wrong number of wolves, looks more than an innocent slip or failure in double checking.

And the other's Eomer:

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Aye, Nogrod, soon as I saw Roa's counting-mistake I remarked: "intentional". Not sure what it means, though. I wouldn't be quick to lynch Roa because she brings a lot to the table in terms of discussion.

Neither of them pursued this, though. I had an impression that people jumped on the "case" much more than they actually did, I think because Nogrod was making so much noise about it.

The fact that Boro was one of them and apparently tried to discourage me from checking actually makes me feel somewhat better about him– because I don't think Borowolf would do anything as silly as that. Eomer has been rather slipping around the edge of things and just chiming in with people... but there's not really enough to go on with him yet.

A point in his favour is that he voted Mnemo, who is suddenly looking very sinister to me after her last post:

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Okay, I've looked at Loslote, and things look bad for her. Summarize one person's post and then vote? Really?

At the same time, how wolvish is that?

So far, so good– but then we have this:

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Which means that I'm going for the one person I have a concrete, rational reason to suspect at all:

++Pitchwife

What concrete, rational reason is that? In her "analysis" she gives only one real reason for suspecting him:

Looks at Nienna and Lottie and here's where something really looks fishy. Let's give them credit for trying to start up the game by restating the rules (which tends to look helpful without being helpful...)?

But what she's talking about is apparently this:

Originally Posted by Pitchwife at #12

Nienna mentions wolves, which, however, are unlikely to be found in the Arctic Sea, miles from any land.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife at #13

Miss Lottie, with all due respect, you seem to be confusing our serious emergency with one those online games your generation indulges in!

i.e. two very obvious ic jokes.

I mean– what?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Boro

Shasta, I know can certainly fill you in about some down-right evil stories, but we can take a trip down memory lane another time.

Well, I could mention Rangers and crossbows....

Brinn, yes, it was a bit of a stretch. However, it fit very nicely with the feelings I was having about your Nerwen-vote, so I added it anyway.

[Mnemosyne]

I wasn't going to do this...

But this is going to eat at my head if I don't say it.

Reasons Mnemo does not trust players who remind her of her

I am more interested in having fun in a Werewolf game than living or dying.

I am more interested in having fun in a Werewolf game than winning or losing.

I enjoy having fun through banter, compulsively stalking the thread, and sometimes posting for the sake of posting.

I enjoy playing like this.

However, because I still want to win, I would rather not have too many players with these priorities on my side.

Therefore, I do not trust players like this in general.

I know myself. It's easier to project myself and my weaknesses as a player onto other people.

And the fact that the "having fun" bit comes so strongly so early in the game means that if people remind me of me during those first few posts, it's going to be a lasting first impression. So if I think, even on a subconscious level, that some of the players are going to have similar priorities to mine, I'm going to think that they might play like me and so wonder how sound their judgment is on individual players.

Which is really strike 2, as strike 1 for giddy players is that there's another perfectly reasonable explanation: "I'm excited because I'm a WULF this time!" (This also plays itself out when people say things like, "I think X!wolf would be spending more time on the thread than innocent!X)

Anyway, there you have it. I'm posting this because earlier some people (okay, two, but I was pretty high up on the lists yesterDay) found the conclusions I drew from these arguments (without presenting the arguments, which was somewhat dumb) suspicious. All fine and well. Just make sure you're suspecting me for the right reasons.

I'm not going to say anything more on this topic.




Tacking this on: Nerwen, Pitch was joking with people who were playing straight through the game, rationally, as if the confines of the game were still present. Nothing wrong with that, except maybe that it added to that dreadful zeal. But if later on he praises them for playing straight through the game, when at the time he himself was extending the banter... I'd just rather he'd put his money where his mouth was.

Yes, it's small, but it's what I've got at the moment. And now I really must be getting to bed: I have a test tomorrow and a very heavy heart.

...Is it bad that I almost want to get lynched just so that people will know I'm innocent?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Boro seems to make sense and stand independently. I like that.

I don't know if I feel all that independent right now, more like all I'm feeling is my brain getting mashed by a sledgehammer.

The dilemma is currently I feel that both you and Mac are looking innocent, and I've been getting more confident with that as this continues, but apparently both of you are highly suspicious of the other. For reasons that I'm not understanding. This makes me doubt my own judgement about one (or both of you) as if I'm missing something obviously suspicious. So far, I just feel like more than one wolf is laying low and enjoying, perhaps even antagonizing these situations where the talkers are going back and forth suspecting eachother.

I've been trying to place myself in a wolf-Nog and Mac-wolf shoes and since you haven't been acting like my conception of how your wolf-selves would act, I feel relatively confident to say your innocent.

Like with Mac, I know as a wolf before he has kept me a live when I've defended him before. But that time I was a lose canon and it would have been foolish for Macwolf to have killed me. I also know that I've lynched a Mac-wolf before and have been a major pain in his rear a few times. I know for a fact that Mith as a wolf tries to get rid of me almost as soon as she can...and right now I don't know if I've been that big of a pain to Mac yet. And right now, since Mac has seen that I'm not a "lose canon" if he was a wolf, I think he would have jumped at an early opportunity to get me under serious suspicion and not basically say I'm innocent.

And with Nogrod, I've also been a severe pain to him, but I also know Nog likes keeping me around for a few days, no matter how big of a pain I am, and no matter if he's a wolf or not. However, as a wolf I've noticed when I do suspect him he is very aggressive and ready to duke it out. I mean when we get after eachother, if I happen to win, I feel like I'm still leaving bloody and beaten up.

Still the fact that you two are suspecting eachother, and that I happen to lean towards trusting both of you at the moment, it's making me paranoid that my conceptions about both of you are horribly off. Ahh, I think I'll just deal with the paranoia for the time being, leave it at that, and focus on other things that aren't so "conspiracy theory" sounding.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Okay... so... I'm not liking these points you're making against me here, Boro. They seem kind of twisty.

It probably does, because it was one of those "heat of the moment" posts. I thought your questioning looked innocent, than when I looked at what I noted on Day 1, plus remembering some of things you've said today, I had a quick flip-flop which sent me into questioning everything else I thought. Then I just kind of stopped and left it at that, because I realized there was a major-flip in my thoughts about you.

Call it innocent probing, since I went through a big turn, I wanted to see your response and then decide whether I should seriously go all out suspect Nerwen or put you back into "innocent feeling." I can give my reasons and a proper response when I wake up tomorrow, but right now my mind is primarily on bed, though you are back into "leaning innocent."

Edit: crossed with Shasta and Mnemo.

Edit: Edit: and Nerwen too, didn't realize she made a recent post

[A Little Green]

Hello! First off, I have loads of stuff to do today, but I'll be at home so I'll be able to check in every now and then. Then, off to comment stuff that's been said toDay.

Originally Posted by Nogrod, on Lommy

But thinking her evil would mean basically that Mac is evil as well…

Why?

Originally Posted by Nog

Greenie I might think more innocentish than not as her reasoning for Mnemo looks more or less like my own... although I get the feeling she picks her instead of me because analysing me would be a too big a work!

Hehe. No, I picked her instead of you because you were more confusing than suspicious. Or rather, I couldn't figure you out at all because your behaviour made no sense to me regardless of whether I assumed you were a wolf or not. Therefore, I went after Mnemo, who I felt suspicious about because she had been kind of calculatedly nice and gave me evil vibes. I wanted time to figure you out.

Originally Posted by Mnemo

That's the kind of exuberance I expect from two kinds of people: 1). wolves, and 2). me.

Even with the explanation, this quote (and the entire post) struck me as downright weird. I don't know what to make of it.

Originally Posted by Boro

What I want to know Greenie is why did you vote for Mnemo one what you called mostly being a gut thing and not Nog?

Did my answer to Nog answer you as well? If not, I'll elaborate.

I'd like to make a list but won't have time for it right now. I'll expect to do one still toDay. Just a quick update: I'm torn about Pitch, somewhat confused by Shasta, very confused by Lottie, and lean towards trusting both Nerwen and Boro (who seem to be at each other's throats ).