WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But it looks so much like purpose slip, because I know what Nog is talking about and I double-checked the captain's notes even before your number slip. You gasp about wolves, and then for some reason give the number of them, but it's the wrong number.

The gasp was sarcastic. I thought that was obvious. I was annoyed by the lack of actual game play in favor of in character banter, even to the point of saying that we didn't know there were wolves, when we all clearly do.

I admit I scan the rules and am liable to miss things, but if someone can't get the number of wolves correct, or the roles that's either plain laziness to not read the captain's notes or someone's faking ignorance. And in this circumstance the number of wolves was stated in more than one place. You are anything but lazy in your analysis Roa, to state the wrong number of wolves, looks more than an innocent slip or failure in double checking.

In my analysis, your right, I like to be thorough. But I scan admin threads, and I typically assume three wolves, because that's the typical number. What I don't like is how when I made my slip, you were all giggles. Now that someone has said, "Oh that's suspicious," you agree.

And just as quick as people jumped on, I'm not liking everyone jumping off! Aside from Brinn, Mac, and Eomer I don't trust those suddenly withdrawing from suspecting me.

Just to be clear, I said you were wrong, not suspicious. I believe you wouldn't have continued on like that were you evil. This is why we put pressure on people- to see how they react. Your reaction cleared you in my books, for now, at least.

[Thinlómien]

Does anybody else smell Nogrod&Roa collaboration in the air?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa

What do you make of the second part of his statement? That wolves slip by on reasonableness? How do you take that?

Well, people like Brinn, Pitchie, Greenie, etc... tend to slip under everyone's radar because they are so very considerate and reasonable. And you should be knowledgeable of their stunning victories! They are the most dangerous wolves there are as you don't normally have anything on them because they play so carefully (and reasonably) and they really have triumphed.

Btw. I'm not too interested in you suspecting or just disagreeing with Boro. That's quite off the mark.

Originally Posted by Nerwen on Boro

Okay, but isn't this verging on forbidden meta-reasoning? Besides, maybe she did get lazy this once.

Like you on her laziness...

But to be honest. It actually is, at least in part, meta-reasoning and I said so earlier talking about an "uncomfortable zone". I'm convinced of her guilt and can't / shouldn't act otherwise. But I'm not going to state anything more on that side of the issue but will continue trying to find any other things there could be (in a few hours as I now have to get off for a while).

(Heh, feels like my first game here years ago when I was the seer and dreamt of Roa on the first Night and then tried to convince others she was a wolf while not being able to just say why... Oh those were the days... )

"Mountain building"... I love it everytime I have time for it!

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm convinced of her guilt and can't / shouldn't act otherwise. But I'm not going to state anything more on that side of the issue but will continue trying to find any other things there could be (in a few hours as I now have to get off for a while)

Nogrod, you say you're convinced of my guilt, but you refuse to give a reason why besides meta-gaming. And you openly state that you're looking for reasons to lynch me, meaning that you haven't actually got any.

I am now convinced that the secret role is the cobbler, and Nogrod is it. He's clearly hinting at being the seer, which the seer Nogrod wouldn't do, because he knows better than to do something so risky. Further more, he can't be the seer, because he most certainly wouldn't attack me like this if he was. Make no mistake, this is a cobbler planning a false reveal.

++Nogrod

[Thinlómien]

I think the way Nogrod and Roa attack each other seems rather fabricated, so I'm assuming one or rather more probably both are wolves. Brinn, I knew they were in cahoots (I couldn't escape Nogrod's celebrations of that in RL), but I don't think that makes it improbable they could be fellows again (especially as Legate didn't play last time, but that goes already slightly meta). But really, if they were both innocent, why would they do this, with absolutely no evidence against each other and without recognising the baselessness of their accusations?

As for other stuff, I feel I can't quite get a grasp on the game. I suspect Nogrod and Roa, and Nienna and Mnemo a bit.

[Mnemosyne]

Okay, I think we all need to calm down and take some deep, cleansing breaths...

(Seriously, I can practically smell the testosterone.)

Am I the only one who's convinced that the current tiffs are just opinionated ordos going insane, and the real wolves are sitting back and practically rubbing their hands with glee?

Although Roa's CobNog theory is interesting... Still, I think that Nogrod as a good cobbler would try to hold out until after Day One to start wreaking havoc. I'd just like to lay off both of them for a while and look at other possibilities...

I am glad, however, that we no longer have the problem we had thirteen hours ago or so! At the very least Boro and Roa should be commended for their apt bit of pot-stirring.

Since we've been discussing wolf strategies so much (reasonability etc.), could we please try to look at things from other angles? What I'm thinking of is more of along the lines of IC versus OOC. With a good deal of us (that's where the strategy falls short--our beloved n00bs!) there's a huge paper trail for how they normally play as innocent villagers. I think that that's a much better indicator of wolf-hood than whether a person sounds reasonable or not.

Finally...

One simple request... could we try to get as many of our votes in as possible not in the last five minutes? Reason is our ally in Werewolf, and last-minute voting often precludes the possibility of its just exercise.

[Boromir88]

Speak of the scientist...looks like I jumped the gun prematurely on Mnemo.

[Inziladun]

Once again, to address this:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

This means that the actually interesting thing to talk about are the reactions to him. I see three possible wolfish responses. 1. Agreement, in an effort to lead the village astray side by side with an innocent Boro, 2. Plain disagreement, putting oneself on the majority's side anticipating the general disagreement or going along with it now that it's there, 3. Maintaining the discussion, so that the village wastes time talking about things that don't matter.

1: none
2: Nogrod, disagrees without a fuss, which actually doesn't look very suspicious; Pitch's comment might be suspicious.
3: Inziladun, starting with "Huh?" and continuing; Nerwen, first merely picking up what Roa and Inzil said, then going into attack now (which would look innocent if her tone wasn't so darn sinister); Morsul made himself comfortable on the fence.

When I said this:

Originally Posted by me

Huh?

It was bedtime, and I really didn't get where Boro was going with that line of thought. But then, to say I was 'maintaining the discussion', when all I'd said was this:

Originally Posted by me

I see [Boro's] point now regarding Gifted survival strategy, and yes, that sort of thing has led to their being lynched. But I don't see any certain way of divining which we're looking at: a nervous Gifted, or a brash wolf. Do you have any ideas?

That's a reach, Mac.
And it really does look to me as if you were leaving the door open to raise suspicion on anyone who responded to Boro's comments.

I don't read much into Roa's misnumbering the wolves. It wouldn't get her very far as a wolf, in my opinion, and I think she's quite savvy enough to know that.

x/d with Roa and Pitch