The relationship betwen Music/Singing and Magic

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Interesting question about the wizards. I tend to think that they didn't sing because they were "undercover" during their tenure in Middle-earth; clearly, it was intended that they be thought of as old Men, not as Elves or Ainur. I can't recall any instances in which Men used music as a means of magic or power, and if the wizards were to do so, the immediate presumption might be that they are some kind of strange Elven-kind. It's possible that at some point earlier in his time as one of the Istari, Gandalf at least did use singing as a means of implementing his personal power, since the Men of the North gave him the name Gandalf, which Tolkien at least once translates as "elf of the wand," or "elf with a staff." With that mistake behind him, he may have eschewed further uses of music to avoid becoming thought of as an Elf.

Though the wizards don't use music, they do use Words of Power, and as fans of The Music Man know, singing is just sustained talking. In some traditions, "songs" are not words set to music, as we think of them, but intricate poems. So it's possible that "music" might be used by the wizards in the form of recitation, the words providing meter and rhythm and tone, if not specific diatonic or modal pitch. I should go look at the text, but it seems to me that there are indications that some of the songs in LotR are "sung" in this way (I'm thinking of the Song of Luthien, the Song of Durin, and Bilbo's song about Earendil). If such is the case, then it would make sense that during this mission, the music of Istari was the music of carefully chosen words, spoken in particular meter and tone.

Well, it's another thought.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

So it's possible that "music" might be used by the wizards in the form of recitation, the words providing meter and rhythm and tone, if not specific diatonic or modal pitch.

Many real-world languages rely on pitch accent (no pun intended) or tone rather than stress. I'm not sure I quite understand the difference between the former two, but both seem to have to do with the use of musical pitch to semantically distinguish words which are otherwise homophones. Maybe there was something of the like in the Elvish languages - doesn't Tolkien mention somewhere that plain Elvish talk sounded like singing to mortal ears? In this case, it would be relevant that the two or three 'spells' we hear Gandalf using are in an Elvish tongue (Naur an edraith ammen, naur dan i ngaurhoth, etc.).

Originally Posted by Ibrin

I should go look at the text, but it seems to me that there are indications that some of the songs in LotR are "sung" in this way (I'm thinking of the Song of Luthien, the Song of Durin, and Bilbo's song about Earendil).

I'd imagine that the rhymed songs would have been sung to a melody, whereas alliterative verse (such as the Song of the Mounds of Mundburg or Malbeth the Seer's Words) was rhythmically declaimed, with or without musical accompaniment.

Originally Posted by Ibrin

If such is the case, then it would make sense that during this mission, the music of Istari was the music of carefully chosen words, spoken in particular meter and tone.

In this context, it seems noteworthy that Saruman's power (or at least the only part of it which we see him using in the narrative) is so intimately connected with his Voice.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

In some traditions, "songs" are not words set to music, as we think of them, but intricate poems. So it's possible that "music" might be used by the wizards in the form of recitation, the words providing meter and rhythm and tone, if not specific diatonic or modal pitch.

Hm. Maybe the Istari were more into rap, you know, Grandmaster G and Pimp the White battling it with the mike? Maybe that was what happened during the Wizard duel up in Orthanc?

Originally Posted by Morth

In fact, Tolkien reaches the point of lunacy when folks start singing or reciting poems at the drop of a hat, sometimes at the most inopportune times throughout the story.

Haha, I must admit that I cringe at times when the singing reaches the point of absurdity. Though I suppose that if we are willing to accept dragons and Elves, we should also be able to accept a bit of, to our modern sensibilities, inopportune singing.

Nice replies by the way. Hopefully I can give them more attention a bit later.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Hm. Maybe the Istari were more into rap, you know, Grandmaster G and Pimp the White battling it with the mike? Maybe that was what happened during the Wizard duel up in Orthanc?

Oh, the horror...!

Actually, some years before rap began (as modern culture thinks of it), I was in a choir that performed what was then called "rhythmic singing," or spoken chorus. Unlike sprechgesang and sprechstimme (which I was exposed to some years later), there was no sustained or modulated pitch used. The words were all spoken, but in very specific meter, and the entire four-part work was performed in the form of a fugue (the piece was titled "Geographical Fugue" by Ernst Toch, and was first performed in 1930, I believe). It was quite peculiar yet interesting, and though I never again performed such a thing, I've heard a few others (probably imitators of Toch), before rap came along. Very unusual, and fun in an odd way. I suspect it's something on this order that I think of when I imagine music in words alone, apart from the sounds of the words themselves.