TIG LXIX: Meeting at the House of Usher

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Funny how meta-reasoning works. Despite being fully aware that the roles were assigned randomly, my mind refused to accept the notion that Roa and Nog could be Wolves together.

I really thought the fact that we weren't at each others' throats would really tip everyone off.

Well, I agreed with your reasoning (although it was, of course, in our interests for Wolves and Bear to be at each others' throats from the outset). But, to be fair, you were not helped by Hakon here. I would be interested to hear from him whether he did dream of you. But, even if not, I presume that the Wolves thought that he did. Is that right Wolves?

Actually, Boromir was a lucky kill for us. We just wanted to get rid of a vocal and strong player, and lay false trails along the way. We had no inkling that Boromir was the bear. I was pulling for you, BTW.

I'd be interested to hear why you didn't kill us, then. Was it purely the threat of our revenge kill, or did you want to preserve the option of teaming up with us? I did wonder when I saw that sally was not a Wolf whether you might decide to kill one of us that Night and take your chances. I also thought that, if Nog was a Wolf, he might be reluctant to do a deal, thinking it unsporting.

The unsporting thing was why we didn't kill you on Night 2. And as I said, there really wasn't a back and forth about working with you. Really, the reason we didn't kill you was the odds. We had better odds with you alive than with you dead.

Roa - You fooled me with what looked like genuine reactions twice - first when you backed off after suspecting me so strongly on Day 1 and then again with your reaction to our reveal, which I thought totally genuine. Was that all acting, or was there an element of frustration there? Later, I became increasingly convinced of your Wolfishness, particularly when Fea pointed out to me that the Wolves had a great opportunity to get you lynched on Day 3 and failed to take it.

Had I been an innocent, the frustration would have been real. As a wolf, however, I was only intrigued to see how it played out. I admit, I hoped that more people would be on the "Yeah, let's lynch Fea!" idea.

Though I assure you, if we had one more Nightly kill, it would have been one of you.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Actually, Boromir was a lucky kill for us. We just wanted to get rid of a vocal and strong player, and lay false trails along the way. We had no inkling that Boromir was the bear. I was pulling for you, BTW.

That's refreshing to hear, I thought I was just too darned obvious. Which was why I killed Hakon too, I didn't know whether he dreamed of me or not, protecting myself did not enter into my head. It just looked like he was playing the seer in a similar way to what I would. That is talking about a plan for the seer, but since he was the seer he was describing his own plan. Like what I wad attempting as the bear, lengthily describing what the bear should do, and try to do it. Although, my ultimate plan was to lynch the wolves and go for gifted at night, I figured this would keep the innocent village off my case for a while, but also start to eliminate wolves.

Which leads me to werebear rule #495: do not pave a nice road to wolf victory by lynching the hunter and killing the seer.

Absolutely brilliant strategy Sauce and Fea, you (like me) had to think about your own survival whether it be with the wolves or the village. And you put yourself in the perfect spot with all the power, the village couldn't lynch you and who cares if you gave the wolves a headache about whether to just kill you or not.

Well done wolf-team, but you may have under-estimated the threat, Nienna can probably remember my wolf-guesses after my death and I wasn't anywhere close. The only baddie I was came close to guessing was Greenie. I guess I could include Sauce, since he turned out to be a rotten villain too.

Super game Mira and Nienna, thanks for getting me to join, I can't believe I was actually dragging my feet, because I would hate myself for at least an hour if I missed out.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Roa

I was pulling for you, BTW.

Well, it would have completely changed the game, had you had your way. I was hoping that I had attracted enough suspicion on Day 1 (thanks largely to you, funnily enough) for the Wolves to leave me alone. Also, Fea and I were both mentioned as possible Cobblers at various times, which we thought might be to our benefit. In that regard, we were quite annoyed when Greenie turned out to be the Cobbler.

Originally Posted by Roa

We had better odds with you alive than with you dead.

Why? Because of the revenge kill? Or because you thought that our votes more likely to favour you than the innocents? Because, as known non-Wolves, our continued presence increased the chances of innocents voting for a Wolf.

I am interested, because I was really worried that you would attack one of us at Night and go for the sole victory. As a Wolf, I would have been sorely tempted to.

[Hakon]

I never did dream of Boro. I dreamed of Sally the first night and Pitchwife the second night. I originally planned of dreaming Pitch the first night and SPM the second night and Boro the third night but things shifted. I had SPM pegged for the ranger around the time I died and Boro pegged for either the cobbler or a wolf. I would like to apologize for being such a horrible seer. I clearly make a much better ranger.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Hakon

I never did dream of Boro. I dreamed of Sally the first night and Pitchwife the second night. I originally planned of dreaming Pitch the first night and SPM the second night and Boro the third night but things shifted. I had SPM pegged for the ranger around the time I died and Boro pegged for either the cobbler or a wolf. I would like to apologize for being such a horrible seer. I clearly make a much better ranger.

I wasn't much shakes as a ranger. Then again, as Fea accurately noted in game, the strategy of the ranger changes quite a bit when all the other gifteds check out by Day 2. You're limited to trying to protect likely innocents. Unfortunately, the only innocent I was entirely sure of was me.

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I wasn't much shakes as a ranger. Then again, as Fea accurately noted in game, the strategy of the ranger changes quite a bit when all the other gifteds check out by Day 2. You're limited to trying to protect likely innocents. Unfortunately, the only innocent I was entirely sure of was me.

I am annoyed that I did not dream of you in this game. My meta game reasoning had you as a gifted. The reason being I am always suspicious of you and the seer could talk with gifteds they dreamed of in this game.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Hakon

I am annoyed that I did not dream of you in this game. My meta game reasoning had you as a gifted. The reason being I am always suspicious of you and the seer could talk with gifteds they dreamed of in this game.

Could certainly have made a difference, especially if you'd gotten hold of Morsul. All of us able to PM might have been decisive. Ah, the possibilites....

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Hakon

I am annoyed that I did not dream of you in this game. My meta game reasoning had you as a gifted. The reason being I am always suspicious of you and the seer could talk with gifteds they dreamed of in this game.

And 3rded to what Pitch and Nog said.

A lot of the times too, it depends upon not only what side you are on, but who your enemies are. Like my first game as a wolf, I had phantom and Lalaith as partners, we went straight through and none of us got lynched. But another game as a wolf, phantom and Lalaith were innocent, and I was lynched Day 1 - both voted for me and phantom gave the final vote to put me in the lead, because they knew my wolf-habits and I was acting the same.

Or I should have figured out in this game, when Nog and I are on opposing sides, I have been a pain in his rear too many times, and if he doesn't kill me early I make him regret it.

It's not that being killed/lynched early = you played bad, a lot of it depends not only on who is playing, but what roles they have.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Spm

Why? Because of the revenge kill? Or because you thought that our votes more likely to favour you than the innocents? Because, as known non-Wolves, our continued presence increased the chances of innocents voting for a Wolf.

I am interested, because I was really worried that you would attack one of us at Night and go for the sole victory. As a Wolf, I would have been sorely tempted to

I don't actually remember all the PM's we shared by then, but my view was that your revenge-kill might actually cripple our lines as there were such great odds for you to hit it right. I mean you would have gone with lynching Roa the next Day - and the other one had decent chances of shooting it right with the vengeance - and staying as a known innocent that Inzil could guard the Night he would then have died... so the lynching on the next Day would have been really tense - and bad in numbers for us.

And well anyway... There were a bit too many if's with that vengeange kill (the possibility of Roa being lynched to add there) and the remaining lover playing for the innocents as a known innocent - alongside Inzil making it two in the worst case etc...

So a deal... at least in the short sight was better for us. I mean I actually wasn't sure the game was going to end when it did. It was actually 2 against 3 and not an ending position...

But talking of my position, I would have voted for making it a shared win by killing Nerwen then, but who knows had I been persuaded...


On another issue: don't blame yourself Hakon, it's not everyDay the seer makes the right choices. Quite the contrary...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I admit, I hoped that more people would be on the "Yeah, let's lynch Fea!" idea.

I understand, and I am not in the least bit offended.

I would have lynched me too.

And I would like to second Pitch on congratulating Zil and Nerwen for showing the world how to lose gracefully (and with brilliant parody).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

And I would like to second Pitch on congratulating Zil and Nerwen for showing the world how to lose gracefully (and with brilliant parody).

I'm amused and honoured to have made it into your sig.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I laughed my entire way through reading it, and still found myself giggling twenty minutes later.

[Hakon]

One thing I would like to add is that when Boro and I spoke after our deaths he told me he was going to tell me who the wolves are, I told him let me guess first. I guessed two correct, Roa and Nog.

[Mirandir]

Man I hate how you can only rep so many people in 24 hours...Sorry if I haven't gotten to you yet.