Yavanna's Chosen

[Ancalagon'sFire]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

So, are we to suppose that the whole industrialization of Isengard, including the breeding and armament of a huge army of Uruks, was done in the following months, with no preparations visible at the time of Radagast's last visit, or did he tell himself, "Well, I don't like at all what Saruman is doing there, but he's the head of the Order, so I won't question him?" If the latter, he really was the simpleton Saruman took him for, much as I'd prefer to think there was a little more to him.

You raise an interesting point in relation to what Radagast observed at Orthanc, which we can but surmise. Suffice to say he was there before Gandalf had visited and Saruman had not yet begun to prepare his army with such vigour. It had already been months gone by before Radagast found Gandalf and explained the news given him by Saruman. The role Saruman wanted him to play.

Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words that they heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell. For some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spake to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler's trick while others gape at it. For many the sound of the voice alone was enough to hold them enthralled; but for those whom it conquered the spell endured when they were far away, and ever they heard that soft voice whispering and urging them. But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will, so long as its master had control of it.

The Lord of the Rings

It may be fair to say Radagast could have fallen foul of the honey dripping from Saruman's forked tongue. When Gandalf relates his meeting with Radagast back to Elrond he is certain that he had not given himself to the whim of Saruman, simply that Saruman had played on the honest nature of Radagast for his own ends. I do not believe Radagast knew the extent of Saruman's fall, his designs or his dominion by Sauron. He simply acted in good faith to warn a brother in need.

That of course does not answer whether he succeeded in Middle-Earth in the role appointed him by the Valar. It does however show that he did play a role in undermining Sauron by contributing to frustrating his efforts. However, it would seem that his heart was given to all things that grow and the animals that live among them. He became the ultimate gardener of Middle-Earth his focus on all things made by Yavanna. With Middle-Earth now closed to The West, sending a Maiar (Kindred Spirit) in whom she could extend her own hand was a masterstroke but difficult to quantify. Remember, she was adamant he go with Saruman as she had her own motives over and above bringing together the free peoples of middle-earth to unite in their insurgence against Sauron.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Ancalagon'sFire

. He became the ultimate gardener of Middle-Earth his focus on all things made by Yavanna. With Middle-Earth now closed to The West, sending a Maiar (Kindred Spirit) in whom she could extend her own hand was a masterstroke but difficult to quantify. Remember, she was adamant he go with Saruman as she had her own motives over and above bringing together the free peoples of middle-earth to unite in their insurgence against Sauron.

Good point. Radagast is the ultimate gardern (or is gardener the right word for waht he did, maybe caretaker, gamekeeper/warden, or even ranger (in the sense we tend to use it today not in the Tolkein sense). Radagast may have gone astray failed in the Ishari Mission, but I wonder if he had his own mission from Yavanna herself, and if he did in that mission he may has suceeded spectacuarly. Whatever faults Tolkein Himeslf may have found in Radagast, it seems, from within the context of the story Ganadalf found none, or if he did he accepted them. He never came to Radagast and tried to exort him to force the beasts of the wood to join the free peoples (Radagast may or may not have done things to help the Allicance, but if he did, it appears he did so on his own onus and by his own free will). Unilke Saruman, Gandalf seems to have a very high opion of Radagast (even going so far as I recall, in the Hobbit of mentioning him to Beorn as a way to introduce himself (or am I just remembering the BBC Radio show). Most important of all Gandalf in a certain sense, ultimately leaves all of ME in Radagast's hands. He makes no effort to try and convice Radagast to return with him to the west (assuming for the moment that Radagast actually could) still less to try and force him to, which in his Gandalf the White aspect (and likey de facto current head of the Istari) he just might have the authority to do. Gandald trusts Radagast enough to leave him as the ONLY wizard in ME, unchecked unapposed and (within the confines of his human body) unhindered in any way (Radagast my not be anywhere as strong as Gandalf or Saruman but he is still a wizard) . Given who Gandalf is, that is saying a lot.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Good point. Radagast is the ultimate gardern (or is gardener the right word for waht he did, maybe caretaker, gamekeeper/warden, or even ranger (in the sense we tend to use it today not in the Tolkein sense). Radagast may have gone astray failed in the Ishari Mission, but I wonder if he had his own mission from Yavanna herself, and if he did in that mission he may has suceeded spectacuarly. Whatever faults Tolkein Himeslf may have found in Radagast, it seems, from within the context of the story Ganadalf found none, or if he did he accepted them. He never came to Radagast and tried to exort him to force the beasts of the wood to join the free peoples (Radagast may or may not have done things to help the Allicance, but if he did, it appears he did so on his own onus and by his own free will). Unilke Saruman, Gandalf seems to have a very high opion of Radagast (even going so far as I recall, in the Hobbit of mentioning him to Beorn as a way to introduce himself (or am I just remembering the BBC Radio show). Most important of all Gandalf in a certain sense, ultimately leaves all of ME in Radagast's hands. He makes no effort to try and convice Radagast to return with him to the west (assuming for the moment that Radagast actually could) still less to try and force him to, which in his Gandalf the White aspect (and likey de facto current head of the Istari) he just might have the authority to do. Gandald trusts Radagast enough to leave him as the ONLY wizard in ME, unchecked unapposed and (within the confines of his human body) unhindered in any way (Radagast my not be anywhere as strong as Gandalf or Saruman but he is still a wizard) . Given who Gandalf is, that is saying a lot.

No, no, no, I actually see this thing from a completely different point of view.

First (starting from the end): I believe Radagast could not return. He didn't fulfil his mission, and it was not Gandalf's authority to tell him to come or stay.

Second: Gandalf did not force people to do anything. Radagast was still doing something, good (birds helping etc.). Gandalf thought that Saruman, also, until Gandalf learned about his treachery, was doing something to help. Each of the Wizards had their own agenda, so to say (this is where I see the primal failure of Saruman as the Head of the Order, by the way - not that he should have forced others to do as he wished, but his task as the First of the Order was certainly to oversee the others and facilitate some communication between them, not just that everybody roams freely without not caring at all about others. I am not speaking of any big coordinated machinations here, but if Saruman fulfilled his part, I believe he would have prevented Radagast from crawling away among his animals and lazing around instead of trying to do his task. That said, in my opinion it was not really Gandalf's position to "discipline" Radagast - it was mainly Saruman's responsibility, Gandalf, of all people, tried hard to fulfil HIS tasks, and he really did not have time to stand over Radagast all the time shouting at him about what he should have been doing. I can assume Gandalf would have reminded Radagast of his tasks when they happened to see each other once in a while, but he did not have time nor authority to oversee him all the time.) As for "unlike Saruman, Gandalf seemed to have high opinion of Radagast", well, I don't think it was that way. First, it is not hard to have better opinion on Radagast than Saruman did. Second, Gandalf is just not the type of person who would dump another, despite whatever shortcomings the person had. Look at how he kept asking Saruman over and over again, after his fall, to come back and offered him mercy. Radagast was honest, that was what Gandalf praised about him, but it tells nothing about his work.

Third: Gandalf coming to "force Radagast to make the beasts join the Free People", I think that is not really the thing that would happen. First, once again, it was not Gandalf who had the authority, only Saruman could have done that. Actually, I can well imagine Saruman doing that, if it came down to it - that is, if Saruman decided that some stupid animals could be of any use in war. But anyway, the task was not to make the animals "join the Free People", but to, as Gandalf did it with the people, make them resist Sauron. The Istari's mission was all about that - and it is very largely spoken of in the Unfinished Tales - not uniting the Free People (and animals) and making them attack the Dark Lord, but giving them hope, supporting their resistence, giving them the strength to fight Sauron on their own. It was Saruman who fell into the trap of this "power solution", I am quite inclined to believe that even if he remained true to the cause of the Free People, he would have overthrown Sauron by force. Which means, once again, failing his mission. That was not the Wizards' task.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Other things [Radagast] might have been sent to do.

Make sure no one tired in the corse of the wars (and post wars) decided to go an extermianted the Ents who were as I recall in some ways Yavanna's chosen children (much as the dwarves were Aule's).

Originally Posted by Ancalagon'sFire

That of course does not answer whether he succeeded in Middle-Earth in the role appointed him by the Valar. It does however show that he did play a role in undermining Sauron by contributing to frustrating his efforts. However, it would seem that his heart was given to all things that grow and the animals that live among them. He became the ultimate gardener of Middle-Earth his focus on all things made by Yavanna.

If Radagast's special role was to protect Yavanna's interests, it's odd that her 'children', the Ents, didn't appear to give Radagast very high marks.

'Yes, I do know [Gandalf]: the only wizard that really cares about trees,' said Treebeard.

TTT Treebeard

Why would Treebeard have made that remark, if Radagast had been furthering the Entish cause in Middle-earth, and generally doing a lot of good?
It seems to me Radagast really didn't do much of any note. His one shining moment was the rescue of Gandalf from Orthanc by Gwaihir, but even that was only accomplished because of Gandalf, who had asked Radagast to arrange for news to be sent to Isengard.

[Raynor]

'Yes, I do know [Gandalf]: the only wizard that really cares about trees,' said Treebeard.

Well, we might attribute that to many things. On one hand, Gandalf may have impressed the ent very much, with his dedication, passion, and possible higher spiritual standing, so that even if the other istari did they best, they just couldn't measure up to him. On the other hand, how extensive would this ent's knowledge of the deeds of the istari be? He doesn't strike me as a being that would wander high and low, get into contacts/talk with other races, or keep a watch over others, so as to measure them. To a certain degree, the influence of Gandalf on the affairs of the incarnate has been quite subtle, why couldn't we say the same about the deeds on Aiwendil in regards to nature?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Well, we might attribute that to many things. On one hand, Gandalf may have impressed the ent very much, with his dedication, passion, and possible higher spiritual standing, so that even if the other istari did they best, they just couldn't measure up to him.

That would seem to say even less for Radagast. Gandalf's forte was primarily working with the remaining Eldar and Dúnedain, and the fact that to the chief of the Ents he was more notable than Radagast, who was supposedly looking out for Yavanna's interests, suggests Radagast failed even in his 'secondary' mission.

[Raynor]

Why is being notable to an ent of any relevance here? Like I said before, it's not like ents have a natural inclination towards quick and exhaustive exchange of information. They may take a whole day just to greet each other :/ Furthermore, the race of the ents is one with no future in the later history of Arda. If Aiwendil has a limited time at his disposal, why would he waste time with a dying race, instead of planting "seeds", of doing actions that will have far reaching repercussions, no matter how subtle and inconspicuous they may seem - the last act of Yavanna, her last chance to influence the reign of the living, to fulfill her role and "guard" her title as queen of the earth.

The wisdom of the plans of this valie, second in reverence only to Varda, certainly surpasses the comprehension power of an ent; after all, ents seem to have a rather narrow focus on the tall trees and the likes, pretty much ignoring the greater variety of the reign of the living. Ents, who also weren't capable of comprehending/ preventing the departure of the entwives, thus sealing their own departure from the stage.