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Old 10-15-2009, 03:03 PM   #1
Boromir88
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It's not clear that The Mouth was a Black Numenorean, that is only what was said about him, but he was clearly high up in Sauron's hierarchy, and had forgotten his true name (just as the Nazgul remain nameless).

Although I don't think he was one of the blue wizards (as interesting of a question as it is that got me thinking what if?), because in the very late writings Tolkien told a bit more about the Blue Wizards. After Saruman had went East with them and returned alone CT mentions that the two blue wizards were Maia of Orome and can be assumed their mission was to travel (and stay) to the unknown lands of Middle-earth (reasons for why they stayed in the East). There they played a significant role in resisting Sauron and limitting the numbers who joined his armies. However, I think this essay on the Ithryn Luin was very late (I want to say 1970 or '71?) and not sure if it can be considered canon. I'll see if I can dig it up.
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Old 10-15-2009, 03:22 PM   #2
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It's not clear that The Mouth was a Black Numenorean, that is only what was said about him, but he was clearly high up in Sauron's hierarchy, and had forgotten his true name (just as the Nazgul remain nameless).
Well, I guess his Númenórean heritage could be questioned, but the implication clearly is that he was a mortal Man, and no Maia.

Quote:
The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man.
He isn't described as looking particularly old, either, as one would expect from one of the Istari.
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Last edited by Inziladun; 10-16-2009 at 06:34 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-15-2009, 03:23 PM   #3
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Ah-ha, got it. Although here, they are called Morinehtar and Romestamo (not Alatar and Pallando as was written in the UT)

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But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir-up rebellion...and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East...They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarrayinbg the forces of the East, who would both in the Second and Third Age otherwise have, outnumbered the West."~HOME XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth; Last Writings
You can definitely see the issue here, because supposedly the Istari didn't arrive until the TA, yet here Tolkien says the Blue Wizards were influential in the resistance against Sauron in both the 2nd and 3rd ages. However, this was written in 1972, and probably what CT was referring to in his commentary from the UT:

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I know of no other writings about the Istari save some very rough and in part uninterpretable notes that are certainly much later than any of the foregoing and probably dates from 1972.~Unfinished Tales: The Istari
Edit: Crossed with Inzil
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Old 10-20-2009, 06:44 AM   #4
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CT always mention his father's illegible notes... Tolkien had horrible andwriting for a linguistt.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:55 AM   #5
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CT always mention his father's illegible notes... Tolkien had horrible andwriting for a linguistt.
Well, that does not have much to do with it. Linguist is focusing on spoken language or old language which is written down, but probably does not care anymore whether somebody in the future will decipher his handwriting
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