Eowyn and feminism and Tolkien

[Mithalwen]

Elfhelm from the evidence of UT is a pragmatist and read the situation most accurately at the Fords. He does not seem to be the type to be swayed by sentiment or to be a slave to orders when it contradicted his judgement.. he followed Theodred's summons s bypassing the King.

I find Elfhelm one of the fascinating minor characters .. you can get quite a vivid picture from quite a little.

Clearly Elfhelm and Eowyn would have known each other well. He had been marshal (Though not Marshal of the Mark) at Edoras since 3012 when Eowyn was sixteen. With her Uncle increasingly under the malign influence of Saruman via Grima, and her cousin and brother based at Helms Deep and Aldburg respectively as the strongholds of their Marks, it is quite likely that Elfhelm was a confidant and perhaps protector from the unwelcome attentions of Wormtongue.

We know that Erkenbrand was left in military command of Rohan because he was an older man of dignity and authority. Grimbold was his nephew and there seems to be a parity between him and Elfhelm - Elfhelm doens not override him at the Fords, Grimbold does not assume control of the forces of Edoras. If you work on the basis that Erkenbrand was an approximate contemporary of Theoden and Elfhelm a generation younger then they are likely to be mid thirties to mid forties - contemporaries of Theodred which may be why when Grima spread his poison they were inclined to follow his lead rather than his father's. I would think it unlikely that one not of the blood royal would rise to the rank of Marshal much before 30 no matter how able they were so that ties in with the date that Elfhelm took up his post at Edoras.

I have a theory - though not one I can prove that Elfhelm may have been a kinsman of Theodred on his mother's side, The Rohirrim tend to have similar names in their families and since Hild was the sister of Helm I just wondered if Elfhelm might be kin to Elfhild... Not necessarily brother ..if he were the king's brother in law it would surely be mentioned, maybe a cousin. A fanciful idea I know but not totally implausible. In the structure of the story he would then be a kind of foil for Imrahil (another of my beloved minor characters).

To belatedly get back to the point. I think Elfhelm was astute enough to know that what might befall Eowyn at home could be as bad or worse than a battlefield . Maybe he knew she would find a way anyway and so the best thing would be to have her where he could keep an eye on her. Maybe he had some premonition - a disobedience but like so many a necessary one for the eventual success of the quest.

[Lalaith]

With regard to the normalcy or abnormalcy of Eowyn's behaviour...lets not forget one thing. She was not unique, she had a cultural prototype instantly recognisable to readers who knew Norse literature.

This word, shield-maiden, existed for centuries before Tolkien put it in the mouth of Eowyn. The Germanic cultures of northern Europe had shieldmaidens aplenty. I have to say that my response, when I first read the story, was similar to Ibrinidil's...I thought of her as a human being damaged by grief, love and despair, rather than fighting a pre-determined gender role.

But giving this question a purely critical response, I have to assume that Tolkien must really have loved Eowyn as a creation - in the same way that I think Shakespeare loved Beatrice, and grew to love Lear. 'Dernhelm the Young' in his/her glory on the fields of Pelennor is possibly the finest literary moment in the whole of the trilogy, and you can't write like that about a character you don't love.

[Mithalwen]

I think you are right Lalaith... in on of the HoME volumes he decides Aragorn is too old and grim for her. Will go dig it up..I can't remember if Faramir made his unanticipated appearance in the tale before or after.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I have a theory - though not one I can prove that Elfhelm may have been a kinsman of Theodred on his mother's side, The Rohirrim tend to have similar names in their families and since Hild was the sister of Helm I just wondered if Elfhelm might be kin to Elfhild... Not necessarily brother ..if he were the king's brother in law it would surely be mentioned, maybe a cousin. A fanciful idea I know but not totally implausible. In the structure of the story he would then be a kind of foil for Imrahil (another of my beloved minor characters).

The recent thread on names has got me thinking something, do you think it is possible that one of the reasons Eowyn chose the name "Durnhelm" was that because of the simlilarity of names tradtion it might make it sound like she was kin (mabe some nephew or cousin) to Elfhelm, and therefore minimize any questions by rank and file members of the muster about her being there. Yes I know that most of the proven samenesses are of the first part of the surname, and that "helm" is a really common ending but it does make me think....

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

The recent thread on names has got me thinking something, do you think it is possible that one of the reasons Eowyn chose the name "Durnhelm" was that because of the simlilarity of names tradtion it might make it sound like she was kin (mabe some nephew or cousin) to Elfhelm, and therefore minimize any questions by rank and file members of the muster about her being there. Yes I know that most of the proven samenesses are of the first part of the surname, and that "helm" is a really common ending but it does make me think....

Well, I think it's the last thing you said - "helm" is just a common ending. There have been probably dozens of soldiers in the muster who had names like Windhelm or Torthelm and nobody was asking them if they are not perchance the Marshal's cousins. It would be about the same thing as if you kept asking every Charlie whether he is not perchance related to the Prince of Wales. It would not have occured to anybody to even think about that.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

it might make it sound like she was kin (mabe some nephew or cousin) to Elfhelm, and therefore minimize any questions by rank and file members of the muster about her being there. Yes I know that most of the proven samenesses are of the first part of the surname, and that "helm" is a really common ending but it does make me think....

I think her choice may have been a tribute to him or a joke but I think the text makes it pretty clear that Elfhelm's men know exactly who Dernhelm was - it speaks of "an understanding"between them. Also presumably since Elfhelm was the Marshal based at Edoras, his eored would also have been and known Eowyn. Tolkien's names are seldom without significance. There aren't really enough Rohirric names to get a definitive pattern but it may be more than coincidence that the Rohan's great generals Elfhelm and Erkenbrand "Precious Sword") have suitably military names whereas the humble errand rider is Ceorl. The element Theod- may have only been used in the Royal house (or by very aspirational parents!).