Robbing the Cradle

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Morwen

Was Arwen one the elves living a "life of stagnation" though? She may not have travelled as extensively as Aragorn but during her stay (or stays) in Lorien it is possible that she may have spent a good deal of her time learning what Galadriel had to teach, as Galadriel herself would have spent time learning from Melian. If these teaching sessions involved the use of sanwe, then Arwen, though not having perhaps a lot of rich personal experiences, can tap those of her grandmother is willing to share. This could also have been done with her father and grandfather. Given her lineage she probably had as thorough an education as an elf could have in the Third Age. I guess what I'm saying is that elves may not have a need for direct experience in the way that humans do.

Arwen may not have had a "stagnant" experience, but there is something massively different between learning about life's experiences and living them. The fact that she had so much access to lives past may even explain why she was so content up until the point that she met Aragorn.

[Morwen]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Arwen may not have had a "stagnant" experience, but there is something massively different between learning about life's experiences and living them. The fact that she had so much access to lives past may even explain why she was so content up until the point that she met Aragorn.

I'm not suggesting that learning from life's experience and living it are the exact same thing. I am suggesting that "stagnant" may not be the best way to describe Arwen's life.

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Morwen

I'm not suggesting that learning from life's experience and living it are the exact same thing. I am suggesting that "stagnant" may not be the best way to describe Arwen's life.

Moss-gathering, then? Ah, the limitations of language...

But I do think we are arriving at the same concept.

[Inziladun]

I wonder if some foreknowledge of 'fate' might have been a factor in Arwen's decisions in accepting Aragorn.

'For a moment Aragorn gazed in silence, but fearing that she would pass away, and never be seen again, he called to her crying Tinúviel, Tinúviel! even as Beren had done in the Elder Days long ago.
Then the maiden turned to him and smiled, and she said: "Who are you? And why do you call me by that name?"
'And he answered: "Because I believed you to be indeed Lúthien Tinúviel, of whom I was singing. But if you are not she, then you walk in her likeness."
' "So many have said," she answered gravely. "Yet her name is not mine, though maybe my doom will not be unlike hers".

Appendix A

The comment of having a similar 'doom' to Lúthien makes it appear almost as if she had been waiting for someone like Aragorn. At least she didn't seem all that surprised to observe a young Man walk out of the trees, and call her by the same name as that of the likeness in her recognised by her people.

[ElanorFB]

I think part of what makes it easier is Aragorn's Numenorean bloodline. And his tragic family history. It makes him feel aged and just as part of the past as Arwen.

[skip spence]

A couple things I'd like to say.

Firstly, Arwen, if we think of her as a real person, might not have lived such a sheltered life as the general opinion makes out. Maybe she had her fair share of dangerous adventures and travelled widely too, but if these experiences wasn't important on a grand scale for the history of Middle Earth, there would be little use mentioning them in the tales, which is not to say they didn't occur.

Secondly, Elves don't seem that hung-up on age. Off the top of my head I can think of a few examples of relatively young Men and Elves making a name for themselves and becoming very respected despite being relatively young. There's Dior, Thingol's heir, who became king of Doriath at a very young age. We have the snotty Maeglin, who rose to a very prominent position in Gondolin, which of course goes for Tuor too. Let's not forget Túrin, who made it big in Doriath and Nargothrond, and Beren. These three Men were loved by Elven princesses too of course. Perhaps age truly is but a number when ageing don't affect yourself?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Firstly, Arwen, if we think of her as a real person, might not have lived such a sheltered life as the general opinion makes out. Maybe she had her fair share of dangerous adventures and travelled widely too, but if these experiences wasn't important on a grand scale for the history of Middle Earth, there would be little use mentioning them in the tales, which is not to say they didn't occur.

If we're talking Arwen as imagined by Peter Jackson, you're probably right.
In the books, though, I don't see much evidence she did a great deal of travelling. Journeys to and from Lórien (likely under guard) would seem to be the limit of the world she knew.
Her mother, of course, was captured by Orcs while crossing the Mountains, but there's no indication Arwen ever was in any sort of danger. And why would she have gone anywhere but Lórien?

Originally Posted by skip spence

Secondly, Elves don't seem that hung-up on age.

Among themselves, I'd agree. But it appears they generally did take it into consideration when dealing with Men. Thingol had his 'baseborn mortal' remark to Beren. Legolas made several references to his great age relative to the rest of the Fellowship.