Riddles in the Downs

[Rumil]

Hmm Legate,

does 'never speak, never meet' mean just 'are never seen speaking or meeting in the books' or 'never ever spoke or met'?

For example there are some characters that you can infer must have spoken together in the past (or would do so in the future) but don't have an on-page conversation. Would they count?

Still stumped!!!

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Hmm Legate,

does 'never speak, never meet' mean just 'are never seen speaking or meeting in the books' or 'never ever spoke or met'?

For example there are some characters that you can infer must have spoken together in the past (or would do so in the future) but don't have an on-page conversation. Would they count?

Still stumped!!!

I was thinking the same thing...

I mean Boromir and Faramir REALLY fit well but they obviously met... but we never see them speak

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh no, no. Of course if it's clear that some characters have spoken to each other, like that Boromir-Faramir example, of course I would count it as if those two DID speak to each other. Use your common sense, there's no bluff in the riddle that would deny common logic. The two I have in mind really didn't, neither in the books nor any other time, only there is one subtle "but" in the "never speak". But that's just in case that everything else would fit and this one seemed a bit unfitting to you. But overall, no, Me and He never met and never spoke to each other.

[Mnemosyne]

I'm currently thinking something involving Aragorn, Arvedui, and Malbeth, but it works better if "we" equals "me" and "other" and I can't quite figure out how "she" would fit in (the very fact that there's a specific woman involved makes this a lot harder!).

[Rumil]

Hi Legate,

OK then, I'll start eliminating my possiblities, probably wrong but...

Aragorn is 'I', Sauron is Withnail, no, sorry, 'He', The One Ring is 'Other', Arwen is 'She'

I'm just the second on His mind - Sauron is very interested in Aragorn
He thought of Other more than of me - but more preoccupied by the Ring

I'm just the second on His mind - especially after the Palantir-ing
Although for me He meant more than She - Tricksy - Sauron meant more than Arwen? Certainly a more immediate concern, but rather un-gallant, no?

Me and Him, so alike We - In a rather not-very-alike way, but I suppose both are great and effective leaders
Touch the same iron, touch the same stone - both touched Anduril, stone, hmm, possibly somewhere in Minas Morgul???

We never speak, We never meet - Yup, (Palantir doesn't count)
What tells you who We are? Our hands alone. - Both have distinctive hands - Sauron has but nine fingers, Aragorn has the hands of a healer.

Not sure I'm convincing myself here!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But very right so, Rumil! Well done!

You have also correctly intepreted the particularities of the riddle.

Originally Posted by Rumil

Although for me He meant more than She - Tricksy - Sauron meant more than Arwen? Certainly a more immediate concern, but rather un-gallant, no?

Perhaps put in an un-gallant way but indeed, Sauron was Aragorn's deeper concern in the sense that he could have dropped his vocation and lived somewhere in peace in Rivendell, if he wanted, but he chose not to (I was thinking in the immediate context of Galadriel's "test of minds" and also Aragorn's half a century-long journeys in the Wilderness). Although, of course, even behind his conflict with the Enemy there was the background of doing this for the sake of Arwen, I am far from disvaluing Aragorn's motives.

Me and Him, so alike We - In a rather not-very-alike way, but I suppose both are great and effective leaders

Yes, well, this was mostly just an ouverture to the following statements, though I said it also because I think I recall somebody (Gandalf? Probably) said somewhere (like by the end of TT?) that these two are sort of alike (I don't recall the context properly, though. If anybody finds it, you can get two insubstantional points more ).

Touch the same iron, touch the same stone - both touched Anduril, stone, hmm, possibly somewhere in Minas Morgul???

The iron was indeed referring to the Sword that was Broken, as for the stone, what I actually had in mind was not the very same particular stone, but the Palantíri - which are of course technically made of the same stone, or kind of stone.

We never speak, We never meet - Yup, (Palantir doesn't count)

Exactly. Indeed that was the possible problem I was referring to, as I was afraid that people could just say "nah, they talked via Palantír", while in fact they didn't (you cannot really talk via Palantír).

And the distinctive hands, perfectly correct. I must actually say that it was the part of the riddle I myself liked the most, because it seems funny to me in some way. Not sure why, it's just wonderful to think of it like that.

Well, anyway! Your turn, Rumil, you definitely deserve it!

[Pitchwife]

Applause, applause - both to Legate for the riddle and Rumil for the solution! I had a hunch that Sauron might be one of the two (because of the nine fingers), but I'd never have guessed the rest. Very nice!

[Rumil]

Wow,

I didn't think I had that one right at all!

Great riddle Legate,

I was trying to fit all the people with same types of unusual hands - Sauron/Frodo, Beren/that one-armed elf, Hands of a King, ringbearers etc etc! Was fairly sure that Sauron should be in there somewhere as he doesn't get out much by the 3rd Age.

Stone - Palantiri in general, should have spotted that.

Hmm, well, I'd better put my thinking cap on for the next one.......