T-I-G LXVII: The Rangers of the North - The Fell Winter

[Nogrod]

Well... in the end I only found these...

Originally Posted by Fea

I think we'd be better off without a Captain, but that would be kind of like a Republic game without a filibuster. If the mod says we can do it, who are we to choose not to?

The only way to get rid of Captaincy itself in these early stages of the game is to lynch the Captain in the end of a Day when no one has voted for any other Captain candidate to replace him (Captains are protected during the Nights so they can’t be killed during the Night by anyone).

Later (with 7 players or less) the Captain can also be killed by Night (unless ranger-protected of course) and then you might wake into a Day with no Captain and decide not to vote for a new one.

On a parallel issue...

Originally Posted by Legate

So in other words: yes, once the voting starts, it's just voting. If you don't cast your vote, you are not voting for anybody. If you want to keep the previous Captain, you need to vote for him.

Correct. Although to keep the previus C. you don't need to vote for him if no one challenges his leadership by voting someone else. That's why I insisted there being a deadline after which no new "Captaincy-votings" could be triggered.

So if you think the issue is important and you have to leave the thread early you should vote for the one you think should be a Captain (I'd say an early-leaver voting for his confidence to the current Captain would not be taken as opening a Captaincy-bid but the vote would be counted if rivalling votes would trigger a real voting on the issue later). But if you stay online late you can see whether there is a need to vote for a Captain or not.

Looking at the general feeling of this bunch it looks like there will be a vote everyDay...

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Did we ever get a Word-of-Mod on whether wolves are neutralised if they become Night Guards?

It was discussed, yes. The wolves will be able to PM with other wolves during the Nights even if chosen in “public offices”.

[Nienna]

Innocent:
Legate

Leaning Innocent:
Brinn
Greenie
Nerwen

No Idea:
Sally
Gwath
Kath
Roa

Leaning Guilty:
Valier
Fea
Lottie

I'm going to need to vote soon. Probably from my leaning guilty category.

Is anyone around with any opinions?

[Roa_Aoife]

Nienna, do you have reasons for your feelings, or are they just feelings?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am around here and I may as well present my suspect.

I am suspecting Lommy, again. It is sort of hard to define it from some particular point of view, but she just does not look to me as her innocent self. Of course, she is not around as much as she generally is, because she doesn't have that much time, so that could be reflected in her way of acting as well, but still. For instance, she is far less prone to her typical "Lommy flip-flopping" - it is somewhat more subtle. Also, the way she downplays me as the Captain - okay, now I don't want it to sound too personally, but I just think she would not be as uncertain of me, or at least, I think she would not be so worried of me being in the post of Captain for one more Day if she were innocent. Because I believe she would have good enough reading of me to determine whether I am worry-worthy or not. And so, she should not have minded that much (given what she says herself) to leave me there.
It is really hard to describe, but I think she is guilty, more than anybody else.

She herself said the same thing Roa accused me of, that is, she was, in these words, downplaying Rune's lynch:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm not too happy with the lynch candidates. Rune is most likely an ordo and Hakon hasn't done anything to merit lynching. He seems like a cannon fodder ordo to me.

But especially together with the Hakon thing. She says it with some sort of... certainty, as if she knew he is innocent. Of course as a Wolf she would, and then she could - and now she can - lament "oh, you fools, I told you, poor Hakon"! All too wolfy approach that could be, to say what she just said in this post.

When I was speaking about Lommy flip-flopping:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't like Kath's vote for Valier, it seems forcedly reasonable.

Then again, that's kind of understandable.

But then again again, I really wouldn't mind voting her even as innocent because she so totally fooled me in Brinn's game.

This one looks like Lommy flip-flopping, but more like a forced Lommy-flip-flopping, if you know what I mean? Not something she would genuine think of, but there was something else going on her mind at that moment - like thinking how to cast suspicion on somebody, for instance.

Also, for the sake of mentioning it, her list of people yesterDay is more or less composed the way that it could be like trying to keep on many people's good side, like for example:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Fea - seems okay this far, I can sympathise about the retrackies
Nienna - seems quite the same as last game when she was helpful and innocent

My problem with these is just that it sounds false, as if she made it up. Sorry. I probably cannot say it better. But she just seems to me not to be genuine at all.

But I could note what she said of the two dead of yesterDay:

Hakon - innocent enough, I'm not sure a wolf would boast of making a good leader
(...)
Rune - a bit weird, but I have the gut-feeling that he's innocent - unless he's the cobbler and making a mess deliberately, but it feels more like an innocent Rune making mess accidentally

So here it goes again, sort of defense of Rune (and now we may speak of somebody promoting Rune innocent), and "I'm not sure a wolf would boast for making a good leader" - she states it with Hakon, but doesn't (dare to?) state it with Rune (because it is true in his case, and she knows?).

Ah well, overall, Lommy's reactions are unnerving to me. I just don't think she would behave the way she does if she were innocent.

EDIT: x-ed since Nienna after Nog's

[Roa_Aoife]

Really, Legate, to me it seems that Lommy didn't think making a bid for captain was suspicious on Day 1, so she didn't find an innocent Hakon or a wolfy Rune suspicious. It's less a defense of Rune than what you were doing, and at least her reasoning was consistent, unlike others who thought Hakon was guilty but not Rune, and vice-versa.

Today, knowing that a wolf did indeed make an open bid for captain, I'm not surprised she doesn't want to keep captains around long enough to be dangerous.

[Roa_Aoife]

++Legate

for the reasons I mentioned earlier, and because his suspicion of Lommy looks very manufactured

[A Little Green]

NOT WORRIED ABOUT AT THE MOMENT:
Nienna - Seems innocent and has sharp points (+ agrees with me quite a lot.. ) I could vote her as Guard.
Kath - Innocentish vibes. Could vote as Guard.
Nerwen - Seems more like an innocent Nerwen, she's somehow a tad more careful and smooth and calculating as a wolf. Could vote as Guard.
Legate - Seems innocentish and reasonable. I think I might vote him for Captain.

NO IDEA:
Fea - No read.
Sally - I was kind of suspicious of her yesterDay, but not that much anymore. Actually I have no idea.
Gwath - Too little to go on.
Brinn - No idea.

SOMEWHAT WORRIED ABOUT AT THE MOMENT:
Loslote - I'm leaning towards thinking that the classic suspicious-looking stuff she's done (jumping on other people's suspicions etc.) is more due to being new than to being evil. Not convinced, though, which is why she is here. I'm keeping an eye on her.
Valier - Aargh. Good points have been brought up against her, which must have swayed my opinion of her somewhat. I have little on her that I'd have spotted myself.
Roa - No idea. She's certainly being active and helpful and hasn't said or done anything blatantly wolfish, but I really don't know... It just struck me how handy it would be for a cunning wolf to hide behind being influential, analysing a lot and pointing out other people's faulty argumentation. As I learned on a course of "wise speech", in a debate the one who gets to point out the flaws of their opponent without having to defend themselves is always the stronger. Apart from it being good for the village if she's innocent and striking at wolves, of course, there's always the option that it's the other way round. In short, for one who has posted so much I have very little opinion on her which worries me a bit.
Lommy - Hmmm. Legate I think had some good points against her. I don't know, though, the thing that has struck me as weird in her behaviour is that she was, especially yesterDay, overly enthusiastic and happy and cuddly and all over the place. That in itself is of course no bad thing - it was the way in which it was done that made me worry. Other than that, I don't know.


EDIT: x-ed with 2xRoa, Nerwen and Nienna

[A Little Green]

Does anyone have a vote tally for toDay or do I have to do one myself?

[Nerwen]

Vote Tally

Captain
Fea -> Roa
Brinn -> Roa (2)
Lommy -> Roa (3)
Nienna -> Legate
Sally -> Nienna



Night Guard
Brinn -> Kath
Lommy -> Nerwen
Fea -> Lommy
Sally -> Kath (2)
Nienna -> Nerwen (2)

Lynch
Brinn -> Nerwen
Lommy -> Valier
Roa -> Legate
Nienna -> Valier (2)

EDIT: X'd with a host; updated tally.

[Nerwen]

Hey, Sally McTally, looks like Greenie and I have pinched your job!

[Valier]

I'm gunna try and answer the questions and/or suspisions of me

Originally Posted by Loslote

Valier - she doesn't seem to be willing to commit to a position. I find her a bit suspicious.

How am I not willing to commit? I voted Rune yesterday for Captain, because It was the first day and I was willing to give my friend (who I was sure was being a silly ordo) the chance to be Captain. Also my vote for you was, I thought warrented. you seemed to be bandwagoning very quickly.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Valier is looking rather bad right now. I agree with Fea that her posts don't look genuine at the moment, and her interactions with Rune were rather fishy.

And speaking of her - Valier, did you talk with Boro at all last Night? If yes, was there anything special you two came up with?

I'm not sure how my posts today have been ungenuine, I had little time yesterday or today to post, so I may have been a little rushed. I have explained my interactions with Rune already and it was a plain and simple reason....we are friends and hadn't heard from one another for quite awhile on the Downs and we were being a bit silly.

And yes Boro and myself PMed a bit last night but he seemed to be very busy. He thought that Mac was suspicious and said he himself was an Ordo. He thought I seemed innocent, that was about it.

I know I'm being a bit defensive but I really don't see why I am suspicious...because I voted Rune for captain? and my posts today are insinciere?
I'm just surprised to have 2 votes for me already today and I haven't been here to answer the suspicions.
I'm gunna attempt to read more and come up with a list of my suspisions in a bit.

[Valier]

wow looks like you guys are having a good game of "spin the bottle!"...so I get home from a day of work and I see suddenly half the village wants to see me dead....not quite sure why....Can someone please explain to me why I make such a good lynch candidate for the day?
I would really hate to leave the game so early when I know my talents will come in useful sooner or later.
Well seeing as I guess I need to defend myself or I'm a goner, I'm going back to read and see what people are so concerned about

[A Little Green]

lynch:
Brinn – Nerwen
Lommy – Valier
Roa – Legate
Nienna – Valier (2)

guard:
Brinn – Kath
Lommy – Nerwen
Fea – Lommy
Sally – Kath (2)
Nienna – Nerwen (2)

captain:
Fea – Roa
Brinn – Roa
Lommy – Roa (3)
Nienna – Legate
Sally - Nienna

Hope I didn't miss anything.

[A Little Green]

About the votes:

lynch:
Valier is the only one to have received more than one vote, and with her two votes basically anyone can still end up lynched. I'm not sure about lynching Valier as I haven't looked that much at her myself, but I have to admit some of the arguments against her look quite convincing.

guard:
Well this looks to be much to my liking since Kath and Nerwen are both people I consider voting to that position myself.

captain:
I think I'll probably vote Legate for Captain, I've already stated why. Sally's idea of making Nienna Captain looks interesting too, though, and certainly worth considering - especially as Nienna is maybe the one I trust most at the moment, or one of them.


EDIT: x-ed with Valier

[Valier]

Thank you Sally! At least for thinking along the same lines I am. I am pretty sure that Rune either thought he could sway me to his side or frame me later on, which it seems is happening right now. Ugg gotta read now I'm workin on it. Thank goodness there isn't much to read....is that a good thing?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It was discussed, yes. The wolves will be able to PM with other wolves during the Nights even if chosen in “public offices”.

Thank you.

So just note that, everyone: there is no real reason why the wolves wouldn't want to be Night Guards.

EDIT:X'd with Roa.

[Roa_Aoife]

Okay, someone out there beside me and Nienna has got to find someone suspicious. There are three guilty people among us. It's all well and good to say that the wolves will act as they always do, but the fact is that they're lying about something, and working in tandem with each other, and trying to accomplish a goal other than the village, so their behavior will have to change in some way. Someone among us is hiding something.

[satansaloser2005]

If anyone wants to hear a hunch, I think Brinn's a wolf. I don't know why, I just have that feeling. *hugs her for being so busy by the way* I'm probably wrong, but there's not a lot of other discussion that I feel prepared to get into, so I thought I'd put that out there.

Now if anyone wants to hear a fact, I know I'm innocent. But that doesn't really help in our wolf pursuit, so meh.


Also:

++Kath for NG

If she's a wolf we'll hopefully figure it out soon. If not I don't want her dead.

[Nienna]

Val:

Originally Posted by Valier

Hmmm the site seems to be having problems, so I don't want to risk not voting uncase it goes down again.

++Loslote for Lynch

Not sure if I was supposed to just bold that or highlight...

I was leaning towards Nienna but Loslotes actions seem more warranted for my vote today. I will have my radar on towards one or both tomorrow.

I'll still be here till the DL as long as the Downs is

She flip-flopped between me and Lottie and then ended up voting Lottie... it seemed almost trying to bandwagon

Originally Posted by Valier

Simply because I like him and haven't played a game with him in aaaaages, so yes I would hate to see him get lynched the first day.

This seems like her trying to dissuade villagers from lynching Rune without giving good reason. She also has one of the top vote counts but most of her posts are tiny and either questions about the rules or little replies to people.

And she feels off. I don't know if it is something to vote her for though... bah. She will be my pick if nothing stronger comes up.

Lottie because she suspected me and then voted me for no reason whatsoever. I'm willing to give her another day though.

Fea for reasons given above... she just doesn't feel like an innocent Fea

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Okay, someone out there beside me and Nienna has got to find someone suspicious. There are three guilty people among us. It's all well and good to say that the wolves will act as they always do, but the fact is that they're lying about something, and working in tandem with each other, and trying to accomplish a goal other than the village, so their behavior will have to change in some way. Someone among us is hiding something.

Mmn, but you see you've spent much of the day making your cases against Legate and Greenie, and a lot of the discussion has been around that.

(And while I do get your points on both of them, I don't find them compelling enough to actually vote them at this point.)

Meanwhile, in this post I examined the links between the Rune-for-Captain voters. As I said then, it's not conclusive– Inzil would have looked very much in the thick of things were he still alive– but all the same I think it might be a good idea to lynch either Valier or Loslote (since Boro is leaving).

EDIT:X'd since Roa at #351.

[Nienna]

As I do not have time to look at Lommy thoroughly enough to warrant a vote for her I'm going with my top suspect Valier.

++Vailer

++Captain Legate

++NG Nerwen

and Roa you are creeping your way up my suspicion list. I may be back before deadline but I'm not sure so I don't want to risk it.

[satansaloser2005]

On Rune and Val:

I know Rune was going for the 'out in the open' strategy, and it's really possible that could have extended to his relationship with his mates, but I'm not sure Val would have agreed to be so close to him in return. I'm just sayin'.

Basically, I can see either Rune being so shiny with a packmate Val or him trying to appear to do so to an innocent Val in order to gain her trust, frame her, etc. I'm not comfortable voting for her toDay just based on that.



++Nienna for Captain


I trust her, plain and simple.