"How does one pronounce Tolkien?"

[Nessa Telrunya]

I agree that something so *small* as the pronounciation of names may hold a lot of stock with how you view middle earth. I suppose one way of saying someone's names can hold a sort of ring in one's mind.

That's interesting, though, I've never thought of it like that until I read what you said about that.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

. I suppose one way of saying someone's names can hold a sort of ring in one's mind.
.

It holds all the mystery of new things in a new world - we discovered the names (& more importantly the sound of the names) as we discovered the world. For example, the Dark Lord of Middle-earth I first knew, & feared, & fled from, & finally confronted, along with the people of the story was Soron, not "Sowron". In the same way as we form an image of the characters & places when we first read the story, so we also learn their names, & the sound of their names, & the power of that first impression remains on some level - I'd even go so far as to suggest that changing the sound of the name alters & even lessens the magic we first experienced.

[Hakon]

I have to agree that the pronunciation of names greatly affects the way we view the book we read. I had most of the names correct cause I had seen the movies before reading the books and I first read The Hobbit as a class read aloud in elementary school. I used to think that Beleriand was spelled Bereland. That is how I saw it when I first glanced at the name. Now reading it as Beleriand I kind of feel like it lessens the magic.

[Eönwë]

I agree with what you've said, davem. Changing Cirith Ungol to Kirith Ungol, Seleborn to Keleborn and Sirdan to Kirdan was hard for me, and it's not the same. But then, when you read it again, it seems to fit better (at least to me).

As well as this let me take this as an opportunity to ask how you pronounce Smaug. Is it Sm-or-g or Sm-ow-g or neither?

[Nessa Telrunya]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

As well as this let me take this as an opportunity to ask how you pronounce Smaug. Is it Sm-or-g or Sm-ow-g or neither?

I use the latter, but I'm not sure which would be "correct"

[Hakon]

To be honest this is the first time I have heard it as Keleborn. I just found that out. I have to say though I prefer Seleborn.

[Galin]

Just to mention it, the first edition Foreword also had a brief guide to pronunciation in any case. So some earlier readers had a few pointers... before meeting Keleborn, for example.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I agree with what you've said, davem. Changing Cirith Ungol to Kirith Ungol, Seleborn to Keleborn and Sirdan to Kirdan was hard for me, and it's not the same. But then, when you read it again, it seems to fit better (at least to me).

As well as this let me take this as an opportunity to ask how you pronounce Smaug. Is it Sm-or-g or Sm-ow-g or neither?

I didn't think of this problem until when I joined the 'Downs, or just a bit after that, because it's always been just Šmak for me (the Czech "translation").

As for the others, I always took great care of pronouncing all names correctly, with the exception of Tolkien (only after learning its origins somewhere, everybody says Tol-kee-en in my home country anyway, there was even a radio broadcast where they said "Well, it should be really pronounced like this and this, but people usually pronounce it that way here, so I think it doesn't matter" and spent the rest of the broadcast calling him Tol-kee-en anyway), and then names like "Cirith Ungol", "Celeborn" and "Círdan", which I pronounced (and sometimes still pronounce, if I am not careful enough) as "Tsirith Ungol", "Tseleborn" and "Tsírdan". I believe that "Kírdan" sounds really awful, by the way. It doesn't sound right to me (the others do).

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

then names like "Cirith Ungol", "Celeborn" and "Círdan", which I pronounced (and sometimes still pronounce, if I am not careful enough) as "Tsirith Ungol", "Tseleborn" and "Tsírdan". I believe that "Kírdan" sounds really awful, by the way. It doesn't sound right to me (the others do).

Yes, definately. But maybe that's only because you pronounced it differently. I know that "Sirith Ungol" sounds much more sinister to me, and a lot of the time I still pronounce "Kirdan" as "Sirdan" by mistake, and maybe it's just because "Kirdan" just isn't the same.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I believe that "Kírdan" sounds really awful, by the way. It doesn't sound right to me (the others do).

I think that's an interesting point - its not simply a question of how you first read/'heard' the name in your head, but of what sounds 'right' to your ear. I think that will be different for each of us (& is another argument against any kind of dramatisation of the work - unless as a silent movie). Simply put, for some readers the 'correct' pronunciation, while fully authorised by Tolkien, will sound 'wrong' - & so much of Tolkien's effort in creating languages was to evoke emotional responses - Elvish should seem 'beautiful', Orcish should seem 'ugly & brutal, etc, but if the 'official' pronunciation of an Elvish word seems less beautiful to your ear than your own personal pronunciation, surely you should go with your own?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

For many who read the book in the original English though they are not native speakers, the pronunciation is coloured by the influence of their primary language. That means some names may be pronouced correctly, if Tolkien's idea is similar to the use of those sounds in that language. I have no difficulty with the correct pronunciation of "Sauron", for example, as it would be pronounced just like that in German. Cirdan, on the other hand, would be called "Tsirdan" in German.

I find it interesting that the Hobbit first names are least subject to mispronunciation - there's little conflict when saying "Bilbo", "Frodo", "Sam", "Merry" and "Pippin". Could this be part of the concept of having them feel close to us readers? I know the last names have been changed in translation in other languages - as Tolkien intended them to be - but the first names are quite straightforward.

The farther we get from the Shire, the more exotic the pronunciations get, perhaps? Is that a part of moving into a mythological world in the course of the adventure?

And of course the lingist Tolkien used various languages as models for his various peoples. The pronunciation is certainly coloured by those models.