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#1 | |
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Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
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Well, what we do know is that it was definitely no later than when Sam left (in SR 1482, which I think is FA 60), because in The Tale of Years it says
Quote:
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#2 | |
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,040
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To further muddy the waters, there is this from Letter #144.
Quote:
The Silvan Elves were a different matter. They had spent their entire lives far away from the Sea, and knew nothing of the Sea-longing. I doubt Legolas himself would ever have passed Over Sea had he not chanced to hear the cry of the gulls along the coasts of Gondor. I'm fairly certain many of the Silvan Elves never left, and indeed suffered the 'fading' they were doomed to undergo, holding fast to ME to the end.
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#3 | ||
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Quote:
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I don't know if Tolkien meant the two texts to be taken this way: in other words, maybe the text published in The Lord of the Rings was meant to supersede the description in Of the Rings of Power; but in any case it appears that 'High Elves' can have more than one application. |
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#4 | ||||
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,040
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Quote:
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I found another quote in ROTK that supports the statement in the Prologue. Quote:
I would prefer to think they all went with Elrond, as that simply seems the most fitting to me.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#5 | ||
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Quote:
In my opinion a stronger statement for your case appears in Appendix F. But my point is, since two applications appear to exist, even if one outweighs the other in number, one cannot assume an exclusively Noldorin application exists for all occurances in The Lord of the Rings. Quote:
Last edited by Galin; 08-03-2009 at 07:51 AM. |
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#6 | |
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Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,040
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Quote:
He refers to them as 'Exiles', and 'part of one of the last main kindreds of the Eldar: the Noldor.'
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#7 |
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Wight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Barad-Dur
Posts: 196
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The fact remains that after Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf left Middle Earth, there were still in total many thousands of Elves who remained there who hadn't yet sailed, who lived in at least the following locations :-
- west of the Shire - Rivendell - Woodland Realm, Mirkwood - Lorien - East Lorien, Mirkwood - Ithilien It's also possible that some elves may have been in the far east of Middle Earth, having never made the journey westward throughout the ages. So did they all sail eventually ? |
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#8 | |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Quote:
But rather than argue that Tolkien changed his mind later that same year (to possibly change it again some time later), I would rather suggest that two applications existed, for it is easy enough to imagine how High Elves came to be equated with Eldar (among the Quendi 'the Eldar were as kings' according to Appendix F). The term Eldar itself appears to have altered in reference as well. And yet it's also easily seen how the same term could technically refer to those Eldar who had passed over Sea. For me the question becomes, how is it used in The Lord of the Rings proper? and need it be used consistently, even there? |
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