Admin Thread for Tol-in-Gaurhoth XVIII: The Cottage of Lost Play

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If Rikae knew her non-vote would result in a flip of a coin she would possibly have voted...

I would definitely have voted, and for Lalaith.

[Lalaith]

Rikae....for what's its worth...I think we wolves got a very lucky break with Eonwe's late vote...the coin flip was even luckier. I wasn't expecting to win at all that last day. (Or indeed from the moment Inzil died...you and Nogs both know what a hapless lone wolf I am...)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I think we wolves got a very lucky break with Eonwe's late vote...

The whole dynamics of the game would have been pretty different indeed had Eönwë let his vote stand... Two wolves with two first lynches! (I think it has happened only twice before)

Well, then your "lonely wolf -skills" would have been tested Lalaith!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The whole dynamics of the game would have been pretty different indeed had Eönwë let his vote stand... Two wolves with two first lynches! (I think it has happened only twice before)

I spent Day 2 building cases on innocents, with some apparent success, only to have Nerwen dash in out of nowhere and vote for me.
When I saw Eönwë's initial vote, I think I uttered a 'strong' word or two.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I don't have much to say. I think Nogrod is a coward for saying things about me after he made sure I wasn't around to defend myself, though.

I'd say good game, but libel just makes me angry. I may show up again, I may not. It all depends.

[Lalaith]

Shasta, hon - steady on. Werewolf is a nasty game and it's not a good idea to take it too personally.
Look at me, I spent the last few days sucking up to Nogrod, then twisted his words horribly with the intent of killing him.
Luckily, he has forgiven me.
And you have the consolation of knowing that your excellent instincts did not foresake you, you named both Inzil and I as suspicious on day 2.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I think Nogrod is a coward for saying things about me after he made sure I wasn't around to defend myself, though.

Do you mean that if a U.S. resident makes a suspcious comment about an European in the last six hours of a Day - when the deadline is late-evening U.S. time - they are then cowards? Do you see where that principle would lead into?

But anyway, with that "making sure" and the libel-stuff and all I'll think I better PM you.

[Pitchwife]

Wow! That was a real nerve-ripper! Nog, Lalaith, Rikae - all three of you were simply glorious on Day4. I had as much fun watching you playing it out as I had playing myself, and was totally clueless until the last minute. (Goes to show that you should never trust somebody just because they have a cute avvie!)

Thanks and hats off to everybody else - it was an honour to play with you. And thanks, hats off and a deep bow to Meassyne and sally for making my first game an unforgettable classic!

Thanks for the laurels, too, though I'm not quite sure I deserve them. As some of you may have guessed, I was led astray by Eönwe's fake seer hint early on Day1 - not that I believed him to be the seer outright, but I couldn't rule out the possibility. McCaber's reveal surprised me out of my wits.
(It didn't help me in my confusion that by sheer newbie stupidity I had gotten my deadline all wrong and sent in a premature Save pick (Eönwe) before McCaber ever revealed. I clarified the matter with Mnemi, of course, and as I understood her at the time, she told me my pick would stand (as indeed I had told her it should, in my opinion). So I'm a little puzzled by the Save as it appears in Appendix B - another misunderstanding?)
On Day2, the sensible thing probably would have been to disregard the Eönwe question for now and trust McCaber more. Instead, I engaged Eönwe in a conversation on seer matters, curious if it would prompt a counter-reveal - but all it achieved was to make both of us appear suspicious and get myself lynched, leaving the true Seer unprotected. At least I had the brains to follow Boro's suspicions from Day1 and (thanks to Nerwen) get Inziladulf lynched with me!

Shasta, I understand your bitterness and agree that you've been treated somewhat unfairly in this game (sorry for such part as I had in this). On the other hand, if you'd only voted for Inzil with Nerwen and me instead of kicking Nogrod in your rage, both of us might have lived. But as the saying goes, no use crying over spilt blood...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

No, Nogrod. I mean all that about "I voted Shasta because he wasn't participating as much as Inzil was", when the moddess's clear secondary goal was to tell a story. I don't care about accusations made against my role - that's part of the game. What I'm not okay with are implied slurs against my actual person.

[Mnemosyne]

Rikae, the portion of the closing narration in which Nog died is by no means complete. Keep in mind that I wrote my part of it--the actual death--before the Day even began and I had no idea that it was going to end the way it did. Sally had started out with a better fusion of the two narrations but apparently lost it (right?) and so we ended up with the currently cobbled version. I'm sorry that it puts you in a position of responsibility and we can write that out. But I was not around to write the narration at the time so I couldn't make adjustments.

As far as the double-lynching rules went, I had expected that the village would not even let triple-lynches occur when I was writing the rules. When they started to become a reality, I lumped them in under the double-lynches and thought that that would be logical enough. Apparently it wasn't. But I did create rules that I stuck to, and applied them as best I could in stranger circumstances.

In the end, this was supposed to be a relatively hassle-free game in which people were supposed to have fun. The point was not so much one side winning over the other as it was to have a rippingly good yarn (which I still maintain this game was)--and really, the survivor got the worst fate if you ask me...

So... if anyone feels really distraught over the matter, all I can say is 1). I did my best under the circumstances, and 2). it's just a game.

3). If the tone of this thread becomes nasty because of anyone's perceived or actual wrongs, I will ask people take it to PM. I may have made mistakes but I had fun with this game and I don't want it to end with a sour taste.

Cordially yours,
Mnemosyne

[Nogrod]

All fun and fine! No problem (except the beginning of the discussion being postponed into this day... )!

I mean it was an entertaining game - albeit a short one!

(And at least one PM has been sent already. Hope it settles things a bit.)

[Lalaith]

All fun and fine! No problem

Totally agree. The narrations were fantastic, especially.
Rikae, I hate beer too...but just look at all the stuff we "drank" over the course of this game, I don't think so much virtual alcohol has ever been consumed in a game of werewolf....

[Boromir88]

Well it's good Lalaith and Inzil, that you decided to take care of me early, because I am totally confused by all of this, and surely would not have allowed any of those triple-lynches.

I think I will just say the role of moderator is continually gettng misunderstood. Don't take this as an attack Mnemo, your death narrations were very well written and it's not just this game).

I keep hearing don't get worked up it's only a game. Yes, it is a game, not an RPG. Of course I don't mind wanting to bring the story part of RPG to WW (if I remember correctly, it's been attempted before and I don't recall it working out as successfully). But I agree with Rikae, that WW is meant to be played out by the participants and it is the participants who determined the outcome. Speaking honestly, I'm tired of seeing Mod's interfere and tweak situations to get the outcome they want. This is not an attack against one person, or even a few people, just a general opinion lately I think the Moderator role in WW has been misunderstood and it's causing me to lose my love for...the game.

While we all must realize cheating, deceiving, harsh suspicions are part of the game, I don't think anyone will deny we can all get overboard. I often fear in my aggression, I get too rude (and on a few occasions I have been). So, just consider what Shasta's said. I think it's quite rude to tell someone 'Doesn't matter if you turn out innocent, you are not being any help, so it'll be better to get rid of you, than a wolf who is helping more.' That wasn't the exact wording, but that was the gist of what was said to Shasta, and well I don't blame him for his reaction.

In Brinn's game someone said I was stupid, and even if I knew the person met no harm by it (as I doubt any member means anything personal in what they say in a game) it still doesn't feel good to be called stupid (or unhelpful), and then on top of that lynched, when you're out there trying your best. (Plus, I just couldn't hold a grudge against someone who admittedly made a bad joke at the wrong time,when I am the king of bad jokes during inappropriate times. ) Anyway, this is probably something best left to hammer out privately between Shasta and whoever feels it's necessary.

[Rikae]

Well, the rules are the rules, and although of course I'm annoyed my plan didn't work, that's due to my own oversight. But I am still irked at being made to do things I didn't in the narration. It's just not good role-playing etiquette to make people behave differently than they did (especially in a game where we are supposed to play ourselves!) Several of us did something like that early in the game, when we assumed a body had been cut up that hadn't, and I'll certainly never do it again myself, now that I see how rotten it feels to try to act in one way only to have your actions changed to suit someone's plan. Hmph. I mean, ok, so Nog had to die - but I didn't vote for him (nor did I drink beer - wouldn't touch the stuff! )

I would still like to congratulate our wolves, who did play their part well - Lalaith, I don't know why you'd call yourself a hapless lone wolf - you had both Nog and I thoroughly confused (and when I saw Sally's first narration, I went "of course! Everyone is innocent - it figures!")

[Rikae]

Shasta, I don't know, the way I see it, lack of participation is a perfectly good reason to vote someone - first, because it might be a wolfish attempt to lie low, and also because the quieter (or less opinionated) the player the harder they are to read.

The one time I was lynched early on, it was because I decided to post nonsense and people found me impossible to read. Sure, I was annoyed, but reading people is, after all, much of the game.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Shasta, I don't know, the way I see it, lack of participation is a perfectly good reason to vote someone - first, because it might be a wolfish attempt to lie low, and also because the quieter (or less opinionated) the player the harder they are to read.

The one time I was lynched early on, it was because I decided to post nonsense and people found me impossible to read. Sure, I was annoyed, but reading people is, after all, much of the game.

Day 1 was useless, so I added to the story. Day 2 I had some things to do. Nogrod made it sound (multiple times) as if I were deliberately not playing.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, the rules are the rules, and although of course I'm annoyed my plan didn't work, that's due to my own oversight. But I am still irked at being made to do things I didn't in the narration. It's just not good role-playing etiquette to make people behave differently than they did (especially in a game where we are supposed to play ourselves!) Several of us did something like that early in the game, when we assumed a body had been cut up that hadn't, and I'll certainly never do it again myself, now that I see how rotten it feels to try to act in one way only to have your actions changed to suit someone's plan. Hmph. I mean, ok, so Nog had to die - but I didn't vote for him (nor did I drink beer - wouldn't touch the stuff! )

I would still like to congratulate our wolves, who did play their part well - Lalaith, I don't know why you'd call yourself a hapless lone wolf - you had both Nog and I thoroughly confused (and when I saw Sally's first narration, I went "of course! Everyone is innocent - it figures!")

Hehe. As you saw, in my original narration you didn't do anything to him, but I just tacked Mnemo's narration onto the end and tried to make you as reluctant a participant as possible. I'm sure she'll edit it if she sees fit, but she specifically requested I keep the Nog-chopping in the narration so I did. And who doesn't like beer? *waits for Menel to show up* Hehe.

[Eönwë]

[QUOTE=Lalaith;604650what a hapless lone wolf I am...[/QUOTE]
Hapless wolf? You won.

The Day 3 was so annoying for me, because I thought that there were already two votes for Nessa, and by the time I realised my mistake, it was too late, because I'd already posted and there were no retractions. So basically I thought I had caused a kamikaze triple-lynch. And then Nogrod decided not vote, and at that second I realised that the three of us were innocent. But it also seemed like an innocent mistake.

I think I should trust my instincts more though, because the whole time something in the back of my mind was screaming "Vote Lalaith! She's too clean, too perfect to be innocent!" And I didn't listen. I was mentally urging Nogrod to vote her the last Day, but she managed to win, and what a brilliant victory. Congratulations to Lalaith on her excellent game-play!

I would also like to congratulate Inziladun on his great performance as a reasonable wolf, Nogrod on his long, analytical post (and his unapreciated long posts), Pitchwife for his great rangering (even of he did die a little early- and sorry for making you seem suspicious of the others), and to everyone who played this game and made it fun!

And of course, thank you to Mnemosyne (or should that be Meássë) for coming up with the idea and letting her play in this great game!

[Hakon]

Now that the game is over I can finally share my thoughts as I read it. Originally I thought McCaber was a wolf as well as Nogrod and I thought Eonwe was the real seer. I knew Pitchwife was the ranger from the start, just a hunch that was right. I then began to suspect Nessa after Inziladun's death. After McCaber was killed I thought the remaining wolf was Eonwe. I think it was before Eonwe's death but someone pointed out Laliath was getting everyone liquored up. That made me think she was the final wolf and I was right. Inziladun congrats on being the only wolf who fooled me till your death in the game.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Hakon

Inziladun congrats on being the only wolf who fooled me till your death in the game.

Too bad I couldn't fool Nerwen.
But thanks for the compliment! And you also, Eönwë!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

No, Nogrod. I mean all that about "I voted Shasta because he wasn't participating as much as Inzil was", when the moddess's clear secondary goal was to tell a story. I don't care about accusations made against my role - that's part of the game. What I'm not okay with are implied slurs against my actual person.

Look, it wasn't really you, Shasta: Zil did a rather brilliant job of framing you.

[Lalaith]

Hapless wolf? You won.

I was referring to the DW game which Nogrod modded and Rikae, as EW, turned me evil at the last minute. I managed to blunder from a situation where I was most trusted player, to getting myself lynched, in the course of just two Days.

[Nessa Telrunya]

It was a great game everyone! As a first-timer, I was a little nervous, but I think I"m hooked now.

[McCaber]

Lost on a coin flip. I cannot believe that.

Ah well. I found one by luck. Fea, thanks for being the player who scared me the most. I wanted to vote for Inzil on Day2, but I had to make sure that Nog wasn't lynched and when he was finally safe I was out of time to vote.

[Nogrod]

Btw. sorry about that triple lynch Autume, Nessa and Eönwë!

It was indeed a decision made in 30 seconds or something. I just saw Eönwë's last minute vote and suddenly came up with what looked like a brilliant scenario - getting all you who looked suspicious to me at one sweep thus letting the four of us I didn't suspect alive from the madhouse... Well, how wrong can one be?

So sorry.

[McCaber]

Also, this was my first try as a seer. I was flushed out extremely early, but I think I did a pretty decent job anyways.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Hakon

Originally I thought McCaber was a wolf as well as Nogrod and I thought Eonwe was the real seer.

I made the same mistake. My worst nightmare was a McCabwolf as fake Seer with a Nogwolf supporting him.
McCaber, sorry for doubting you and leaving you in the lurch! You did a great job, giving us a wolf on Day1 with that courageous reveal. By the end of Day2, I had finally made up my mind to trust and protect you, but I never got the chance.
Eönwe, no need to worry! (Same to the people who got me lynched, by the way.) I was relieved to see you were innocent.
And Inzil - nice wolfing! Your efforts to frame Shasta were quite convincing for a while (as my own voting on Day1 testifies), but when I looked closer at the ongoing quarrel between the two of you, the truth began to dawn on me. And I owe a lot to Boro, who saw through you from very early on.
(Looking back, that little scene between Boro, Fea and you was priceless - an innocent telling a wolf to watch another wolf!)

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

And Inzil - nice wolfing! Your efforts to frame Shasta were quite convincing for a while (as my own voting on Day1 testifies), but when I looked closer at the ongoing quarrel between the two of you, the truth began to dawn on me. And I owe a lot to Boro, who saw through you from very early on.

And I in turn owe a lot to you, Pitchwife, for helping crystallise my doubts about Inzi. (Of course I wasn't too sure about you, either– being thought suspicious is an occupational hazard of gifteds.)

[Boromir88]

(Looking back, that little scene between Boro, Fea and you was priceless - an innocent telling a wolf to watch another wolf!)~Pitchwife

Haha, it was ironic and I didn't chat it up with her because I believed she was innocent. I was feeling more neutral towards her...I feel terrible for wolf-Fea, because usually by day 2, she's got a guaranteed mark and it's nearly impossible to escape. That is more of a testament to Fea's destructive abilities, and bringing chaos as a wolf to whatever she touches. Usually if I'm a wolf, and dreamed of early, the seer at least gives me a couple days to play around and have fun, as long as I'm not too much trouble. It's almost like...'Here's your toy Boro, go play in the corner, I'll let everyone know who you are in a couple days.' Except Lommy's game when I became a Fenris Penguin, if I recall nasty Lalaith outed me so early.

[autume98]

I was thinking the same thing. I was going to vote Lalaith and then ended up voting Nessa.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I think I should trust my instincts more though, because the whole time something in the back of my mind was screaming "Vote Lalaith! She's too clean, too perfect to be innocent!"

Thank you all for a GREAT game! I enjoyed myself. I'm looking forward to the next game. It was a pleasure playing with each and every one of you.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I would definitely have voted, and for Lalaith.

Look at the bright side of it: more kids (mine and yours) in the world for Summerhill upbringing pushed to the extreme: free from a lot of unhealthy parental advisory!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Look at the bright side of it: more kids (mine and yours) in the world for Summerhill upbringing pushed to the extreme: free from a lot of unhealthy parental advisory!

*snickers*


For what it's worth, when Rikae said she wasn't voting I thought I'd misread the rules, so I didn't think to clear it up for her because at that point I was busy writing a narration for the sudden unexpected not-tie. *headdesks* Either way, the three of you who were alive on the last Day were fantastic, and entertaining.

[Inziladun]

For what it's worth, my Day 2 vote was to have been Pitchwife, but Lalaith beat me to it, and I didn't want any obvious links between us. Shasta was my second choice.

[Lalaith]

I didn't want any obvious links between us

Both you and Fea were brilliant in that you left no traces or links to me at all, for which I am very grateful...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Both you and Fea were brilliant in that you left no traces or links to me at all, for which I am very grateful...

I was a brilliantly lost cause early, love. That's why I warned you both in my first PM not to bother tying yourself to me. And then I separated myself in-game from everybody else to avoid leaving tracks... Both wolves knew perfectly well I didn't expect to survive past Day 2.

But you all did well. It was a lovely last Day to watch.

It was a wonderful premise, Mnemo and Sally. I enjoyed it very much while it lasted.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

PS, hugs for everybody. Werewolf is a game that is based around lies and the manipulation of other people's words. While sometimes things can feel like a personal attack, we must remember that every player is expected to use opportunities to his or her advantage. It would be a hollow game if everybody bound themselves and refused to say or do anything that might offend.

If we can't remember that it is a game where we are expected to lie and cheat (within the limits of the rules, of course), then perhaps we shouldn't play it.