The Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin

[Aiwendil]

I agree that the two statements about Taur-nu-Fuin are redundant, but it's not immediately obvious to me which should be kept and which removed. I suppose that GA being the later text, it should be the second, despite the fact that the QS description is more vivid. Of course, we could combine them, but this risks awkwardness. I think I would advise:

RB-DB-19.1: But Morgoth pursued his people to the death, until few remained; and he took all the forest and the highland of Dorthonion, save the highest and inmost region, and turned it little by little to a place of such dread and lurking evil that even the Orcs would not enter it unless need drove them. {Therefore it was after called by the {Gnomes}[Elves] {Taur-na-Fuin}[Taur-nu-Fuin], which is Mirkwood, and Deluwaith, Deadly Nightshade; for the trees that grew there after the burning were black and grim, and their roots were tangled, groping in the dark like claws; and those who strayed among them became lost and blind, and were strangled or pursued to madness by phantoms of terror.}

RB-DF-09: <GA {but}But {[struck out: still]} Barahir would not retreat and defended still the remant of his land and folk in Dorthonion. But Morgoth hunted down all that there remained of Elves or Men, and he sent Sauron against them; and all the forest of the northward slopes of that land was turned into a region of dread and dark enchantment, so that it was after called Taur-nu-Fuin, {the Forest under Nightshade}<QS which is Mirkwood, and Deluwaith, Deadly Nightshade>.

Thus we keep both names. An alternative would be to transfer some of the description as well:

RB-DF-09: <GA {but}But {[struck out: still]} Barahir would not retreat and defended still the remant of his land and folk in Dorthonion. But Morgoth hunted down all that there remained of Elves or Men, and he sent Sauron against them; and all the forest of the northward slopes of that land was turned into a region of dread and dark enchantment, so that it was after called Taur-nu-Fuin, {the Forest under Nightshade}<QS which is Mirkwood, and Deluwaith, Deadly Nightshade; for the trees that grew there after the burning were black and grim, and their roots were tangled, groping in the dark like claws; and those who strayed among them became lost and blind, and were strangled or pursued to madness by phantoms of terror>.

[Findegil]

Sorry for the long silence, there were some other businesses at hand.

About Gil-galad's departure: Aiwendil worte:

So at this point, my vote is still to go with the 456 date and place their departure in this chapter.

That makes sense, and I will not try to arrgument you over to some other date. But the note in GA is unusable since it deals with Fingon taking up the kingship. Anyway we have to move the insert from the place were I had added it.

What we have to do is to from a text that gives a reason why Orodreth send away his wife and son at this time. And the obvious reason at this point is the news of the death of Fingolfin reaching Nargothrond (where Orodreth and his family were at this time).

I supose that we can still take the notes to the QS as to form our text. And for our propose the first of the notes is the best fitting. I supose:

§148 RB-DF-07 <GA Now Rochallor had stayed beside the king until the end, but the wolves of Angband assailed him, and he escaped from them because of his great swiftness, and ran at last to Hithlum, and broke his heart and died.> There was lamentation in Hithlum when the fall of Fingolfin became known; but Fingon took the kingship of the Noldor, and he maintained still his realm behind the Shadowy Mountains in the North. But beyond Hithlum Morgoth pursued his foes relentlessly, and he searched out their hiding-places and took their strongholds one by one. And the Orcs growing ever bolder wandered at will far and wide, coming down Sirion in the West and {Celon}[Limhir] in the East, and they encompassed Doriath; and they harried the lands, so that beast and bird fled before them, and silence and desolation spread steadily from the North. Great numbers of the {Gnomes}[Noldor], and of the Dark-elves, they took captive and led to Angband, and made thralls, forcing them to use their skill and knowledge in the service of Morgoth. They laboured without rest in his mines and forges, and torment was their wage.
§149 Yet Morgoth sent also his spies and emissaries among the Dark-elves and the thrall-{Gnomes}[Noldor], and among the free; and they were clad in false forms and deceit was in their speech, and they made lying promises of reward, and with cunning words sought to arouse fear and jealously among the peoples, accusing their kings and chieftains of greed, and of treachery one to another. And because of the curse of the kin-slaying at Alqualondë, these lies were often believed; and indeed as the times darkened they had a measure of truth, for the hearts and minds of the Elves of Beleriand became clouded with despair and fear. RB-DF-08 {And most the Gnomes feared}<LQ1 And ever the {Gnomes}[Noldor] feared most> the treachery of their own kin, who had been thralls in Angband; for Morgoth used some of these for his evil purposes, and feigning to give them liberty sent them abroad, but their wills were chained to his, and strayed only to come back to him again. Therefore if any of the captives escaped in truth, and returned to their own people, they had little welcome, and wandered alone outlawed and desperate.
RB-DB-18b <LQ2; Correction to QS But fearing now that all strong places were doomed to fall at last before the might of Morgoth, {he}[Orodreth] sent away his wife{ Meril} to her own folk in Eglorest, and with her went their son, yet an elvenchild, and Gilgalad Starlight he was called for the brightness of his eye.>
RB-DF-09 <GA {but}But {[struck out: still]} Barahir would not retreat and defended still the remant of his land and folk in Dorthonion. But Morgoth hunted down all that there remained of Elves or Men, and he sent Sauron against them; and all the forest of the northward slopes of that land was turned into a region of dread and dark enchantment, so that it was after called Taur-nu-Fuin, the Forest under Nightshade.

About Mirkwood: I wood like to hold more of the discription like in Aiwendils second suggestion.

Respectfully
Findegil

[gondowe]

1. Good date 456. But, it would be better in this place?, What do you think? we have a mention of nargothrond with some momentarily peace

RB-DF-13 <GA and the Orcs did not dare to cross the {Taiglin}[Taeglin] for many years after.> Thus the folk of Haleth dwelt yet for many years in watchful peace in the forest of Brethil; and behind their guard the kingdom of Nargothrond had respite and mustered anew its strength.
RB-DB-18b <LQ2; Correction to QS But fearing now that all strong places were doomed to fall at last before the might of Morgoth, {he}[Orodreth] sent away his wife{ Meril} to her own folk in Eglorest, and with her went their son, Ereinion, yet an elvenchild.>

I still think what is said above about the eppesë Gil-galad.

2 On Taur-nu-Fuin I agree with Aiwendil's last, but Mirkwood, Forest under Nightshade, or both.

Greetings

[Findegil]

I don't think that a time of relative peace is the time when Orodreth would send away his wifw and son. In all situations that Tolkien envisaged for that journey it was time of stress and realisation of the danger that the father and/or the relam was in not a time of breathtaking and temporary peace.

One possibility abot Gil-galad would be to let his mother-name be Gilgalad = Starlight and his later epesse Gil-galad = Star-of-Radiance given for his shiny armour. But that might be a bit artifical.
If we only name him Ereinion here, the read might be lost who he is. Thus if we decide to take only Gil-galad as his name I would think, we have to insert some phrase like: 'and with her went their son, [Ereinion,] yet an elvenchild, {and Gilgalad Starlight he was called for the brightness of his eye}[who later was called Gil-galad].>'

Respectfully
Findegil

[gondowe]

I would like to find a place when the wife of orodreth and Ereinion live for some more years in Nargothrond than only one. In the case I said above it would be 3 years, in 458. and it would be more credible that after a time of stress, but not the end of the war (as is stated in the same phrase of the correction inserted "But fearing now that all strong places were doomed to fall at last before the might of Morgoth") be the best moment to protect his son, it would be securer.

As for the statement "Ereinion, who later was called Gil-galad" is right.

Greetings

[Aran e-Godhellim]

I'm okay with saying "Ereinion, who was later called Gil-galad," or even just plain "Gil-galad." My reasoning is that a scribe writing this could well have used the more familiar name to get his reader's attention, or at least to make it more interesting. Tolkien himself said that old names were often forgotten and replaced by new ones in Elven histories.

[Galin]

gondowe wrote: I want to insist in the Gil-galad surname, perhaps I'm mistaken but, is not later the note about that was his mother who gave the name for the helm and mail, and that it means Star of Radiance, not Starlight? So perhaps it would be better to place his 'surnaming' by his mother in a later time, when he is High King, in the later chapter?

From the August 1965 note: 'She called her son Gil-galad' -- so here Rodnor appears to get a 'Mother-name' Gil-galad, although the name is not interpreted.

However in the Shibboleth of Feanor proper (written on publication notes dated 1968) Gil-galad is stated to be an epesse rather, meaning 'Star of Radiance', and was given to him because his helm and mail shone from afar (and etc. p. 347-348). I don't recall any reason within the Shibboleth to think that Gil-galad was a nickname and a Mother-name. It appears to be just an epesse there.

Aran e-Godhellim (also in response to gondowe's post): This is an interesting point. Linguistically, of course,we must make distinction between the two names "Gilgalad" and "Gil-galad." The name Gilgalad (incidentally the form used in the note) is a compound of gil "star" and calad "light," (with the c lenited to a g) and does in fact mean "starlight."

The name Gil-galad, however, is not a compound, but rather a juxtaposition of gil with a completely separate word galad meaning "shining radiance; reflection." Thus we translate this name (following regular Sindarin conventions) "Star-of-Radiance."

Tolkien had published in The Lord of the Rings that Gil-galad, the hyphenated form, meant 'Starlight'. And according to letter 211 (1958), he appears to have thought of Gil-galad 'star-light' with galad showing a mutation from a word in initial c- (footnote with respect to kal).

To try to post all the mentions of this name from Words, Phrases, and Passages might be interesting, but arguably would not be very helpful, as Tolkien can change his mind from one note to the next. Although at one point JRRT translates Gil-galad 'radiant star' from a kalat- 'radiance, radiate' and a root KAL- shine. So we have the word 'radiance' here, but still this is variant enough from the idea of a root ÑAL- 'shine by reflection' and a word *ñalatâ 'radiance, glittering reflection (from jewels, glass or polished metals, or water)' -- both the root ÑAL- and *ñalatâ are found in the later Shibboleth papers, and which meanings go hand in hand with the reason for his epesse given there.

Since Gil-galad was the form finally chosen by Tolkien, we must accept "Star of Radiance" as the accurate translation. Perhaps we could simply omit the two lines about his epessë?

For myself I would rather publication, meaning published by JRRT himself, be given the highest rank to follow; and if so we have Gil-galad 'Starlight' from The Lord of the Rings, or from The Road Goes Ever On, 'Star of bright light'

My opinion on these points anyway.