Boromir and his search for Rivendell - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kuruharan · 05-24-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

and why would not Elrond or Gandalf have sent more Elves to assist, or even come themselves?

We don't know exactly what the process of commanding the ford or adding white horses to the flood entailed so it may have been they were required to be elsewhere...but I think you are right that Rivendell wasn't close to the ford.

William Cloud Hicklin · 05-25-2009, 01:02 PM

I would point out that when Boromir left MT, months before, there weren't any Black Riders peering over the Ford!

The Mouth of Sauron · 03-31-2014, 07:57 AM

Come to think of it, once Boromir lost his horse at Tharbad, if he'd followed the road (the Greenway) he'd have arrived at either Sarn Ford or Bree, and from either of those places got a fresh horse and proceeded to Rivendell. Surely he would have bumped into Rangers or travelling Elves to direct him?

Inziladun · 03-31-2014, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

Come to think of it, once Boromir lost his horse at Tharbad, if he'd followed the road (the Greenway) he'd have arrived at either Sarn Ford or Bree, and from either of those places got a fresh horse and proceeded to Rivendell. Surely he would have bumped into Rangers or travelling Elves to direct him?

He doesn't seem to have made it to Bree, because at Rivendell the sight of Hobbits Frodo and Bilbo surprised him. Bree would have introduced him to "Halflings" already.

Also, I think he only knew that Rivendell was near the western side of the Misty Mountains, north of Moria. Since it was obviously in existence before the founding of Gondor and Arnor, that much at least was probably still known to some there. With that knowledge, there would have been no reason for him to have continued up the old road to Bree, even if he had known about the little town. And on his road in the wilderness between Tharbad and Rivendell, there was very little chance of meeting Elves or Dúnedain.

William Cloud Hicklin · 03-31-2014, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

We don't know exactly what the process of commanding the ford or adding white horses to the flood entailed so it may have been they were required to be elsewhere...but I think you are right that Rivendell wasn't close to the ford.

Which is made clear in The Hobbit, Chapter 3. It also wasn't easy to find.

According to Tolkien's notes it was "28 miles (by road 30)" from the Ford to Rivendell.

Pervinca Took · 03-31-2014, 01:58 PM

30 miles! I didn't realise it was that far. I suppose Glorfindel must have galloped the rest of the way with Frodo on Asfaloth, then ... a few more hours and he would have been beyond their aid, Gandalf said.

William Cloud Hicklin · 04-01-2014, 08:35 AM

You don't gallop a horse for thirty miles- at least not a real-world one. Just the mile-long sprint to the ford would have blown him!

G in fact tells Frodo that "Elrond's folk met [Aragorn and Glorfindel], carrying you slowly towards Rivendell."

Mithalwen · 04-01-2014, 11:21 AM

Bill, I am intrigued as to where the note that says it was thirty miles from. The Ford to Rivendell.? It is only a couple in the Journeys of Frodo so is it from HoME?

William Cloud Hicklin · 04-01-2014, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Bill, I am intrigued as to where the note that says it was thirty miles from. The Ford to Rivendell.? It is only a couple in the Journeys of Frodo so is it from HoME?

It's actually from one of a whole series of time-distance lists Tolkien made (I would guess) while working on "The Hunt For the Ring;" at any rate some of the group are concerned with distances from the Fords of Isen to Sarn Ford etc. There's also some fascinating stuff on Hobbit measurements, which (unsurprisingly) are just as anatomical and impractical as RW Imperial measures. None of it published, at least not yet.

Pervinca Took · 04-01-2014, 02:09 PM

Gandalf told Frodo that the whole of the valley was under Elrond's command. It would make sense for a wide area (and a Ford 30 miles away) to be under his control; Galadriel protects Lothlorien with the aid of Nenya, and Vilya was the mightiest of the Three.

Pervinca Took · 04-01-2014, 01:52 PM

Quote:

You don't gallop a horse for thirty miles- at least not a real-world one. Just the mile-long sprint to the ford would have blown him!

G in fact tells Frodo that "Elrond's folk met [Aragorn and Glorfindel], carrying you slowly towards Rivendell."

Yes, but they couldn't have got that far before the aid came. If there were still thirty miles to go, the Elves that met them must have met them pretty soon and had fairly efficient transport. I'm not sure what time of day the flight to the Ford happened, but Frodo was brought to Rivendell on the night of that day, I think it says. A thirty-mile canter, perhaps?

I too had always had the impression that it was only a couple of miles or so. However, the Tale of Years says that, on the way back, they leave Rivendell on 5th October and cross the Ford of Bruinen on the 6th.

05-25-2009, 01:02 PM	#2
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	I would point out that when Boromir left MT, months before, there weren't any Black Riders peering over the Ford! __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

03-31-2014, 01:58 PM	#6
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	30 miles! I didn't realise it was that far. I suppose Glorfindel must have galloped the rest of the way with Frodo on Asfaloth, then ... a few more hours and he would have been beyond their aid, Gandalf said. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

04-01-2014, 08:35 AM	#7
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	You don't gallop a horse for thirty miles- at least not a real-world one. Just the mile-long sprint to the ford would have blown him! G in fact tells Frodo that "Elrond's folk met [Aragorn and Glorfindel], carrying you slowly towards Rivendell." __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

04-01-2014, 11:21 AM	#8
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Bill, I am intrigued as to where the note that says it was thirty miles from. The Ford to Rivendell.? It is only a couple in the Journeys of Frodo so is it from HoME? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

04-01-2014, 02:09 PM	#10
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Gandalf told Frodo that the whole of the valley was under Elrond's command. It would make sense for a wide area (and a Ford 30 miles away) to be under his control; Galadriel protects Lothlorien with the aid of Nenya, and Vilya was the mightiest of the Three. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 04-01-2014 at 02:42 PM.

03-31-2014, 07:57 AM	#3
The Mouth of Sauron Wight Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 196	Come to think of it, once Boromir lost his horse at Tharbad, if he'd followed the road (the Greenway) he'd have arrived at either Sarn Ford or Bree, and from either of those places got a fresh horse and proceeded to Rivendell. Surely he would have bumped into Rangers or travelling Elves to direct him?