Sauron, the Necromancer

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Interestingly, in the various drafts of the Tale of Years (published and un-) Tolkien referred to the Lord of Dol Guldur as the "Sorceror"- Necromancer replacing it in the published version. However "Necromancer" in the Hobbit appears in the first draft of the first chapter.

One wonders, without confirmation, if during the Lay of Leithian period Tolkien imagined the Lord of Werewolves and Vampires as having installed the Unbodied Dead in the hroa of animals.

[Mithadan]

This thread has moved very fast and there are some truly excellent posts here. Pitchwife correctly identifies Morgoth's Ring and specifically Laws and Customs of the Eldar as a source of information on the Feär, the souls or spirits of Elves (and Men) and William Cloud Hicklin helpfully quotes portions of the relevant sections. In addition to the excerpts addressed by William, Tolkien mentions the Summons of Namo (Mandos) which is intended to gather the Feär of the Elves into the West. Some Elvish Feär resist the Summons due to reasons mentioned in William's quote and some directly or indirectly respond to Morgoth's Counter-Summons. These Elvish spirits can remain "unhoused" or take over another body. It is unclear if the Feär of Men are subject to the counter-summons as they are fated to depart from Arda at death. Yet these sections of Laws and Customs seem to make up the backbone for what Tolkien considers to be "necromancy". Sorry Bethberry, I don't think he meant a reference to the general dark arts.

Formendacil makes a great point that there appears to be virtually no direct textual evidence about the reasons Sauron is named the Necromancer in his Dol Guldur days. We cannot attribute prior knowledge of Sauron's apparently known Necromantic tendencies to this nickname because Sauron's identity was not known. This begs the question of why the Wise did not identify the Necromancer as Sauron on this basis alone.

As distastful as it may seem, the Silent Watchers were likely animated by corrupted Elvish Feär. The Barrow-Wights? Likely the same. Werewolves, Vampires, perhaps even Dragons? Elves or minor Maiar. Sauron was certainly busy. But what about the time he inhabited Dol Guldur and what textual evidence exists of his activities? Well, William does mention Sauron's connection with Werewolves. In the Hobbit, there clearly are some sentient wolves; the Wargs. Even later, Gandalf, after the attack by wolves upon the Fellowship, seems to ascribe to those wolves a preternatural quality.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I wouldn't necessarily jump on the Watchers 'inhabited by some evil spiirit' as necessarily entrapping unhoused fear. Adfter all, like any good classically-educated Englishman Tolkien was familiar with the Platonic tripartite soul, and the Watchers for all we can tell were possessed merely of the sensual, not the nutritive or rational.

[Rumil]

Hi all,

A link to a similar discussion from long Ages past--

Did Sauron practice Necromancy?

Actually quite an interesting read as Great Minds obviously think alike and many of the same points are made! Also links to an even older thread on the Watchers.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

May I suggest a simpler explanation ?

Having used the term "Necromancer" in The Hobbit, Tolkien was stuck with the term. I think if he'd envisaged publishing The Lord of the Rings while writing The Hobbit he'd never have used the term in relation to Sauron.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

That old thread likked above, from 2004, includes the sotrt of thing that can plague us all when new information is discovered:

Sauron existed in the mythology before the writing of The Hobbit. Originally called Thû, he entered Tolkien's writings during the 1920s as Morgoth's most powerful servant. However, when The Hobbit was published, the Necromancer was not intended to be Sauron: it was only when he came to write The Lord of the Rings that Tolkien realised how conveniently the two characters could be combined.

Ah, but John Rateliff's History of the Hobbit has rather changed things- from the very first draft of 'An Unexpected Party:'

[Gandalf (> Thorin, confusingly):] "We must give a thought to the Necromancer."
"Don't be absurd" said the wizard. "That is a job quite beyond the powers of all the dwarves, if they could be all gathered together again from the four corners of the world. And anyway his castle stands no more and he is flown to another darker place - Beren and Tinuviel broke his power, but that is quite another story."

So there you have it: "Sauron the terrible" was already "peeping over the edge" from the outset!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Sorry for posting without contributing to the debate, but I simply cannot keep quiet.

Good job everyone, this is the best debate I have seen on the downs for quite some time, I have been intriqued and entertained while reading your posts. . . I just wish I could contribute my self.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Ah, but John Rateliff's History of the Hobbit has rather changed things- from the very first draft of 'An Unexpected Party:'

"[Gandalf (> Thorin, confusingly):] "We must give a thought to the Necromancer."
"Don't be absurd" said the wizard. "That is a job quite beyond the powers of all the dwarves, if they could be all gathered together again from the four corners of the world. And anyway his castle stands no more and he is flown to another darker place - Beren and Tinuviel broke his power, but that is quite another story.""


So there you have it: "Sauron the terrible" was already "peeping over the edge" from the outset!

So... quite contrary to what I'd heard, The Hobbit was always meant to be set in the same world as The Silmarillion?