WW LX - Mortal Men, doomed to die

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kent

but I am not worried by Nogrod's aggressiveness today.

Don't be. First of all, we need to suspect and throw the suspicions around to see how people react. Secondly - as I've said a thousand times - the wolves need to be nice and uncontroversial but we don't. And really, aggressiviness? That must be a cultural & linguistical difference as well. I think I have been the most mild-mannered and polite all the time.

Yes. Most of the votes so far have been just terrible. The problem is that not all who have voted yet can be werewolves. Shame on you people.

How can we separate the maliciously bad votes from the rest if everyone votes "randomly" or with no points whatsoever? Every nonsense vote given by an innocent eases the task of the wolves to blend in the crowd of whom nothing can be said about toMorrow.

(Oh, how I phantasize a werewolfing community where random-voting on Day1 would lead to quick and immediate lynch - that way the wolves would be forced to try and play and not just hunker down with their malicious "random-votes")

Okay. One hour+ remaining.

Hoist the sails!

[Nogrod]

Lommy!

I didn't find any mentioning of a modfire from the rules. So is there one - and which are the conditions for it - or do we have to decide what to do with the dead load ourselves?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Lommy!

I didn't find any mentioning of a modfire from the rules. So is there one - and which are the conditions for it - or do we have to decide what to do with the dead load ourselves?

Yes, I forgot to mention it. Modfire exists, but it's not based on any set rule, but on the Mod's consideration. The normal "two subsequent Days of no posting or voting" serves as a guideline, sort of...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Interesting you don't feel the need to say the same about Wilwa (never says anything on Day1), Kath (always excuses herself from Day1) or anyone else being like they are in most of the games they're in...

I appolegise for not replying to this earlier.
I did not say it about Wilwa because I have not played with her for years, I simply cannot remember how she usually plays.

Kath has done this before, at least in some of the latter games, but it could
be chance that has made it so and I do remeber games when she was active on day 1.

Your comments on the other hand was 100% deliberate. . .there in lies the differense.

That being said. . .maybe I should have said something about Kath, but I am not with out flaws.

(oh and btw, Nogrod you are no trophy)

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, simply - because if she says she has RL things to do, I can excuse her. Of course, for now - if she were doing this every day and saying "oh, sorry, I can't post" then of course, it would be nonsense. But it is just Day 1, and if such a thing happens once - well, it can happen to any of us, right?

I don't see the difference in Brinn being busy and Kath saying she cannot post until she has slept. . . If you are pro lynching quiet people, just because they are quiet, then surely it does not matter why they are quiet?

Originally Posted by Kent2010

We shouldn't lynch hypocrits either, it may be morally compromising to be hypocritical, but being a hypocrit doth not a Ringwraith make - or frankly we'd all be wraiths. If you believe a quiet one a Ringwraith make than vote for the quiet one do not abstain because you fear hypocrisy.

I think what Wilwa ment was that she would feel like a hypocrit if she voted for a silent person, just because the person was silent.



Oh and there must be coming a lot of great votes now. . .backed with a ton of evidence, without a shred of randomness in them. Well, that must be the conclusion after reading through peoples complaints about the voting.


EDIT: Cross Posted with Legate and Eonwe

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I don't see the difference in Brinn being busy and Kath saying she cannot post until she has slept. . . If you are pro lynching quiet people, just because they are quiet, then surely it does not matter why they are quiet?

I was not speaking about Kath either. I was speaking generally. I simply agree with the fact that quiet people are no good, but of course, they may have their reasons. But they need to have the reasons. Somebody is busy toDay, okay, I can pardon him, but if he keeps doing that with no particular reason, I am on Nog's side. I am here for the DL, so I can wait, if I wanted to vote somebody quiet, until the very end of the Day if somebody who posted nothing before does not post something of substance (especially after being warned or such).

As to who that would be... well, I am still thinking of Isabellkya. She might be as well my pick #1 for toDay. But still a short time till DL.

EDIT: x-ed with Isabellkya and Kent

[Nienna]

++ Sally

*sorry dear* *cough cough* "I mean ... GARRRR... Walk the Plank"

Your vote for Nog worries me a bit. It almost seems like a bandwagon vote and those are never good. Nog was being a little zealous but I addressed my issue with that and he doesn't seem suspicious to me.

[Kath]

Hmm, given my lack of posting toDay perhaps I'll let Nog get away with that earlier comment ... my day got a bit full!

But I'll have a wander through the thread and give my thoughts in a bit, assuming I'm right about it being a 9pm deadline for BST. I'm a little worried by this Nog bandwagon. For all that it would be a calmer, quieter game without him I don't particularly see why he's suddenly garnered all these votes. Back in a few.

[Kath]

Listy listy. One day I'll learn to do something more interesting.

Eomer - I love the first post. That said, banter. Ha, Eomer thought the same about Leggy's speaky uppy bit. Fair point about Nog. Keen on Eomer right now, he's thinking along the same lines. Probably means he's a wolf but there you go. Doesn't like wilwa's reasons for eliminating people, fair enough. List. Innocent: Shasta, Nilp, Rune. Guilty: Brinn, wilwa, Legate, Nienna. Ish. Feels there are dodgy votes, but then they were the early votes, and they're usually pretty odd.

Legate - basically ... excuse me but I can't really remember how any of you play. Dear oh dear, I'll need some leeway for that. Followed by please talk all, not that he'd said much yet. List away! Innocent: Nienna, Rune. Everyone he's not sure.

Shasta - banter. Votes Nog with no reasoning. Not keen. If you can vote you can give a reason. I don't care if it's a rubbish reason but I want one.

Nog - *sigh* The usual. I think trying to help Kent understand about 'deals'. Came across a little telling-off style but actually made sense. Lists every single person in the game and says he might vote for them, therefore entirely pointless. There's posting for the sake of posting you know Nog. Ah arguing with him would be a joyous thing to do, but a waste of time, so I won't. Now Nienna looks better, despite the fact that since he left all she did was argue with him not post anything actually game related. Brinn and wilwa worse.

wilwa - ... interesting. Not her usual style. Votes Eomer via elimination. My usual style so I can't complain!

Nienna - argues with Nog. I really wouldn't. It'll just make it like every single other Day one in every single other game he plays.

Rune - haha, same for Rune as Eomer actually. Says Nog seems more aggressive than usual. Bit of a flip flop on what he thinks about Legate. First likes his list, then says inconsistent in the space of two posts. Lists people he hasn't got a read on, votes Izzy for being careful.

Nerwen - says be suspicious of Brinn for random vote. Legate inconsistent but sally still suspicious.

Lhuna - has no worries about Nog. Joking suspicion of Legate.

Izzy - remembers the old adage that two warring people are more than likely to be innocents, and it is worth remembering.

sally - bit worried about Nog it seems. Clearly I missed something major regarding the last game. Not keen on Rune either it seems.

Brinn - no one is allowed to vote Brinn! She's had bad times and we want to cheer her up not make it worse. Votes sally randomly having limited the numbers.

Nilp - votes himself, and Nog complains about everyone else being predictable!

Hmm, I'm out of time. Will post this now and then vote.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Kent, Rune might have said 98% random but I didn't take that seriously. He seemed to choose Isabellkya because of her careful opening post. Rune was looking for a standard wolf/ringwraith introduction and Isa's fit the bill.

Nothing Isabellkya has posted since has suggested that Rune is way off the mark, at least to me. She isn't really mentioning suspects and seems way too careful thus far.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Nothing Isabellkya has posted since has suggested that Rune is way off the mark, at least to me. She isn't really mentioning suspects and seems way too careful thus far.

And sadly she's not the only one doing exactly that.

If everyone suspected others openly we might start to build the pieces of the puzzle but if they are just nice and jovial not suspecting anyone they sail freely through the Day.

That's the problem.

EDIT: X'd yet again in a grand style... good to hear your thoughts Izzy.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Kent, Rune might have said 98% random but I didn't take that seriously. He seemed to choose Isabellkya because of her careful opening post. Rune was looking for a standard wolf/ringwraith introduction and Isa's fit the bill.

Nothing Isabellkya has posted since has suggested that Rune is way off the mark, at least to me. She isn't really mentioning suspects and seems way too careful thus far.

See that is what I should have wrote, a much better and shorter explanation than the one I just gave.

Anyways I guess it comes down to my use of the word "random"

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

1) Mentions no-one.

2) Thinks Nogrod should be fairer on her but no big deal really.

3) Thinks that people should lay off Nogrod.

4) Her list post:

She has a good feeling about yous truly, Eomer.

She has a bad feeling about Shasta.

5) Asks for vote tally.

6) Votes Isabellkya, finding her last post suspicious. Here's Izzy's post:

A three way tie. I'm tempted to leave it this way.
Because tie's are always fun to watch get rolled.

Then it would be a more random Day one lynching.

Now, don't jump on me for saying this, but the only way the Wraiths think she was the Seer is because she listed everyone and said that she has a good feeling about precisely one of them: and that's Eomer. I don't consider her bad feeling about Shasta to indicate Seer-dom because it was a straight-forward vote-based criticism that anyone could have made.

Now, I always think of finding the Seer first so those are my first thoughts. It could just be that she leaves no trail whatsoever, but I'm never sure Wraiths would kill like that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, so basically Kath has said really nothing much, except replying to Nogrod once or twice and voting, and only in her post #103 she says something about everyone - but it seems to me that not to much conclusions. She more or less rather states on who is doing what, but does not make many conclusions - it seems also that she's been in a hurry to vote before DL yet, so she could not elaborate more. Anyway, my opinion after going through this and thinking about it would be indeed that she was picked to leave no tracks. Can't think of anything better.

[Eönwë]

Kath?

Now the only reason I can think of her death is, as has already been stated, that she hasn't left any strong trails (I'm going to reread her posts after this just in case). She also doesn't seem to have stood out too much in Day 1, at least to my mind, which would probably make her a typical Night 1 kill.

This most upsetting, because not only was she one of us innocents, but she was also the only one who came from my far country.

Hmm.... what have you others who have not shown your faces to say to this horrendous murder?

edit: x-ed with Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

My other question (for everyone to start the day), what is with the multiple people saying "If I live," "If I stay alive...," or similar words?

In post 39 Brinn says "shall I survive..."
Shasta in 42 says"If I live..." and promises to do more today
wilwarin in 51 says "If I make it"
and
Izzy in 86 said "If I am still alive..."

Izzy turned out to be a known innocent, but Ijust don't like these types of phrases, because it just seems unecessary, or at least unnecessary at this point of the game. If the person who says it is a wolf, it looks like a clever way to protect yourself from a lynch because it reads as "I am going to do more tomorrow, and see I am already thinking ahead...IF I survive!" I am curious to what others think about this, maybe it's just that I still don't know the 'lingo,' or is it something more evil?

Well, Kent, my personal opinion would be that it is a bit of a slang and people sometimes say it (even I know I did in some games) - however it is true that one can never know, as it might be used by a Wraith to sort of try to seem "oh, I just hope they won't kill me toNight" - well of course they won't, when it's one of them...

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Now, don't jump on me for saying this, but the only way the Wraiths think she was the Seer is because she listed everyone and said that she has a good feeling about precisely one of them: and that's Eomer. I don't consider her bad feeling about Shasta to indicate Seer-dom because it was a straight-forward vote-based criticism that anyone could have made.

Now, I always think of finding the Seer first so those are my first thoughts. It could just be that she leaves no trail whatsoever, but I'm never sure Wraiths would kill like that.

Okay, that sounds a bit too far-fetched to me, in my opinion. Kath's list seems more unclear than clear to me, although it is possible that the Wraiths have thought in such a way as you write, but in my opinion that's quite complicated thought. Mainly, it presupposes one thing - that you are innocent, and also that the Wraiths would think the way you do. Unless you are using this yourself to make us (in a rather complicated way) believe that you are innocent while you are Wraith, I won't give it much credit, personally. It does not make much sense to me to say that (even if you were a Wraith, because it is so complicated...).

Anyway, I will be here just for a while now probably and then go to sleep... so see you in some time then, probably.

[Nogrod]

I have an early morning call tomorrow so I will just make a few points now. I'll be back later on toDay.

About Kath.

She really was more active on Day1 like in ages (she normally posts once or not at all on Day1 and then explains on Day2 she had forgotten / had other stuff / was late etc. - I mean that for real: she has done that like twenty times, it's her tactics of getting through Day1's). So that sudden activity yesterDay made me think she could be a ringwraith... which she most clearly wasn't. But if the baddies thought along the same lines then this is the result; as she was no baddie then they thought she was a gifted of some sort willing to play more actively for that (not to be lynched fex.).

Her posts don't look too seerish to me unless Eomer is one of the culprits - which he of course has neatly tried to counter already toDay. But they might have thought her any gifted - and as people have said, there's not too much a track her death will leave. So a reasonable kill from the baddie's point of view.


About Sally.

I still have a bad feeling about her due to her actions yesterDay and her first post toDay doesn't make her look any less suspicious. On the contrary. The half playful tone of the lament feels false and looks foul.


About Rune.

Anyway Rune manages to be my top suspect right now with a slight margin over Sally.

Now there's nothing bad in one getting back to posting before the DL after one has said he has no possibility for that and has therefore voted early. No problem with that. No problem whatsoever (eg. this is no sarcasm but a plain fact). It's good people can get back and try to help in the voting-process even if they have themselves voted already in a game of no retractions.

But what did Rune actually do there in the end of the Day? Well he defended himself - even if no one had made any strong suspicions on him or none was actually entertaining the idea of lynching him (except for Kent that is).

And then like twenty minutes before the deadline, with all the hair-raising last minute hassle to come, he just backs away never to show his face anymore on that Day.

That is the blunder the wolves (and cobblers) do time and time again: when the lynch is going nicely from their POV they just lean back and relax - and try to be careful not to mess with anything controversial in the end of the Day. But that non-involvement is exactly the thing that betrays them. It has not been just once or twice this has happened. And this looks like a case straight out from the "Werewolf-handbook of catching the villains".

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Actually, hey, Eomer...

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

4) Her list post:

She has a good feeling about yous truly, Eomer.

She has a bad feeling about Shasta.

...really? Because it certainly does not seem to me like that. Unless I missed something, she says only:

Originally Posted by Kath

Eomer - I love the first post. That said, banter. Ha, Eomer thought the same about Leggy's speaky uppy bit. Fair point about Nog. Keen on Eomer right now, he's thinking along the same lines. Probably means he's a wolf but there you go. Doesn't like wilwa's reasons for eliminating people, fair enough. List. Innocent: Shasta, Nilp, Rune. Guilty: Brinn, wilwa, Legate, Nienna. Ish. Feels there are dodgy votes, but then they were the early votes, and they're usually pretty odd.

Shasta - banter. Votes Nog with no reasoning. Not keen. If you can vote you can give a reason. I don't care if it's a rubbish reason but I want one.

Which, both of that, does not indicate anything strong for me. She maybe indicates feeling a bit good about you in some way, but it's promptly eliminated by "probably means he's a wolf..." - certainly in such a way that it'd be quite weird, I think, to take it as Seerish hint.

The same with Shasta - "not keen" is not any clear judgement for me.

I think you are reaching too far.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Brinniel votes for Sally, apparently because she likes her.

Shasta for Nogrod, apparently because he's stirring up too much trouble.

Nilp for Nilp, apparently because he's still ill.

Rune for Isabellkya, apparently because he sees her as being a bit too careful with her opening post.

Wilwa for Eomer, because of process of elimination then coin-toss.

Sally for Nogrod, for no apparent reason.

Lhuna for Legate, she thinks his posts feel contrived.

Kent for Rune, he didn't like Rune's vote for Izzy.

Nienna for Sally, she didn't like her vote for Nogrod.

Legate for Izzy, because he feels she didn't add any of her own thoughts.

Izzy for Sally, self-defense.

Kath for izzy, for suspicious previous post about leaving a tie.

Eomer for Izzy, not actually for that suspicious post Kath referenced (I hadn't seen it) but because I chose between her or Sally. Izzy just felt too careful and conservative and seemed likely to me.

Eonwe for Izzy, rather her than Sally or Nogrod.

Nogrod for Sally.


------------------------------------------------------------


Votes I don't like:

Brinniel, Shasta, Nilp, Wilwa and Sally's. Thing is, though, these are all early votes and the voters had less to go on.

Nothing else stands out... exactly what the Wraiths would want.

Ok, I'm looking for cool, sensible Wraiths now. The ones who made sensible votes that wouldn't attract attention.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

... here be potential smart Wraiths.

I was thinking Rune, but I'm swayed by Kent's doubts. I think it was a fair vote but put in, maybe, a clumsy way. Not sure.

Lhuna, Nienna, Legate, yes - all of these. Eonwe, possibly.

I don't really suspect Nogrod because he's drawn way too much attention to himself. I know he usually does that but he's gone a little bit further, even, in this game so far.

[Nogrod]

Brinn -> Sally
Shasta -> Nogrod
Nilp -> Nilp
Rune -> Isabellkya
Wilwa -> Eomer
Sally -> Nogrod 2
Lhuna -> Legate
Kent -> Rune
Nienna -> Sally 2

Of those who have garnered votes this far I'd be most happy to vote for Sally basically for bandwaggoning an innocent.

Other ideas? Lots of votes yet to come...

[Thinlómien]

End of Day1, stop posting.

Isabellkya was lynched.

I will check the votes now and then reveal her role, because due to me spending the past hour or so studying and MSNing instead of sketching a narration, it won't be ready very soon...

Ringwraiths, you may start plotting and then send me your pick. Gifteds, you may submit picks too.

[Thinlómien]

"What a distasteful deed, truly!"
"Could there be a greater mark of dishonor than killing the hostess?"
"My my my, what a terrible happening."

The guests were appalled at the horror of the nightly deed. Most of them, at least. Some of them let their misantrophic tendencies to show instead:

"I should think, if we are to be slaughtered, that we won't be a great loss..." Eomer muttered. " So, now, let's see, kill all humans, yes, well..."

But sooner rather than later, they started discussing the actual matters at hand: Kent tried to make mysterious deals with King Legate, Sally and Nilp planned an elopment and Eönwë, Legate and Nogrod debated about philology. Captain Nogrod also attacked the quiet so ferociously that the others nicknamed him "zealot". Some also promoted the pirate dialect and Queen Nerwen even started singing drinking songs. In the end, however, they decided somebody had better ”walk the plank” (as Nienna would have phrased it), and unfortunately for her, that somebody was to be Lady Isabellkya.

She faced her doom with a calm. ”Bye bye”, she said, when Rune, Legate, Kath, Eomer and Eönwë stabbed her with knives they had found from the kitchen.

Isabellkya lay unmoving on the floor and nothing happened.
”Now what is this supposed to tell us?” wondered Shasta.
”Plain enough!” said Brinn. ”She was innocent, so the murderer is somebody else. I say we kill Sally too.”
”Good idea!” agreed Nienna.
”Yarr,” echoed Nogrod, but his voice was lost in the noise that started at the other end of the room.

”You shall definitely not kill anyone else today!” Lord Thinroz shouted, standing up and walking to his guests. ”There has been enough innocent blood today and I will tolerate no more killing in this house. Go to sleep!”

Frightened and baffled by the sudden outburst, the lords and sorcerers exchanged sheepish glances and retreated to their bedrooms.

~*~

Dead
Lommy (mod) - Lady Lómiel Starbrow, the hostess – killed on Night1
Isabellkya (ordo) - lynched on Day1

Alive
Kath
Nienna - pirate
Kent2010 - Black Númenórean scam artist
Legate of Amon Lanc - rebelling Haradian King
Nogrod - Corsair Captain "The Cat O' Nine tails of Ethir Anduin"
Shastanis Althreduin - King of the Sea
wilwarin538 - sorceress
Nerwen - Queen of the Sea
Nilpaurion Felagund - fussy courtier
Rune Son of Bjarne - Tivo the Sorceror
Lhunardawen - rebelling Haradian Queen
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Groin Redbeard - Variag Warlord of Khand
satansaloser2005
Eönwë
Brinniel