General changes in TftE

[gondowe]

Making Gil-galad (Rodnor) as son of Orodreth not complicate so much the edition, only the add of the concept that he flew with his mother from the attack of Nargothrond. And for example I introduce a passage when Sauron took Minas Tirith that Orodreth flew to Nargothrond with his wife and his sons Finduilas Haldir and the young Rodnor. The name Gil-galad was given by his mother and introduced in the last chapter, previously I omitted the word Gil-galad.

By the way It's also easy (I think, as I did) to take the great history of the dead of Amrod in the burning of the ships. (I think it´s more dramatical for the character of Fëanor), because the participation of the twins were minor in the history and I only omit the references to Amrod ( always "and Amras"), the plurals, and "seven sons" to "six sons", etc.

Greetings

[Findegil]

We have not worked out the earlier chapters of the Beleriandic history, but the Concept to name Gil-galad late and use his name Ereinion would be suitable.

We took Ereinion as valid throughout. So I could not recall when that discussion was held the last time we worked on the "Voyages of Earendil" and I still can't. With a bit of luck Aiwendil has some idea were to search, since I did not find it in the obvious places.

Yes, we have also burned Amrod at Losgar. But we did not change 'seven sons' to 'six sons'. The general change would be 'seven sons' to 'sons'. We thought the is more in accordance with that Feanorians attemp to hush it up, so to speak. When a number was needed we added 'remaining' or a similar phrase before the number.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

I must admit to some confusion over Rodnor vs. Ereinion. I thought I recalled a discussion at some point where we decided on 'Ereinion'. But I cannot now find it. Moreover, looking at my old posts in several threads, I realize that I have been inconsistent myself, in one place saying that 'Rodnor' should be emended to 'Ereinion' and in one place the exact opposite.

So it's probably best to make a fresh start in considering the matter. I just re-read the note on Gil-Galad's parentage from XII and, while it's still far from clear, I think the evolution of his name goes something like this:

Late 1930s: In FN II, Gil-Galad (in his first appearance) is the son of Felagund.
Early 1950s: In LQ, Gil-Galad is the son of Felagund.
Early 1950s: In GA, Felagund has no children; a note states that Findor Gil-Galad is the son of Fingon.
c. 1960: In 'A Description of the Island of Numenor' and 'Aldarion and Erendis', Finellach Gil-Galad is a descendant of Finarfin (though the exact relationship is unspecified).
August 1965: In a note on the genealogy of the House of Finwe, Gil-Galad becomes 'Artanaro = Rodnor', the son of Orodreth. The genealogical table itself was then altered to show this.
1968: In 'The Shibboleth of Feanor', he is called 'Ereinion Gil-Galad'.

Somewhat confusingly, CT notes that work on the genealogical table of the House of Finwe continued while the 'Shibboleth' was being written. However, he makes no mention of the name 'Ereinion' in this discussion.

Nonetheless, I think the conclusion to be drawn is more or less clear: at some point between 1965 and 1968, 'Ereinion' replaced 'Artanaro/Rodnor' as Gil-Galad's name. So I think we are correct to adopt 'Ereinion'.

[Aran e-Godhellim]

I agree on adopting Ereinion.

[gondowe]

I was revising PoME, and I think that the sentence that made take the decision of Rodnor is That CT said after the last tree of genealogies that he was sure was the last idea of his father, but it's true that remains not clear the matter.
I don't know. Perhaps you are rigth, and the best name is Ereinion.

[Aiwendil]

Yes, Christopher Tolkien's discussion in XII is not completely clear. He says among other things that:

In the last of the genealogical tables Artanaro (Rodnor) called Gil-Galad appears

Thus implementing the note of August 1965. The date of this 'last of the genealogical tables' is not clear, but CT says that these genealogies were still being used and altered when the excursus from the 'Shibboleth of Feanor' was written. This would suggest that the use of 'Rodnor' on the genealogical table was contemporary with the use of 'Ereinion' in the text, in which case the question of which came later is very doubtful.

However, he also notes that some corrections were not made to the genealogy - e.g. the genealogy still has the earlier three daughters of Finwe and Indis whereas in the 'Shibboleth' text they had two daughters. So it seems that the 'Shibboleth' excursus represents, at least in some respects, later ideas than the genealogical table.

Nonetheless, CT, after giving a brief schematic of the final situation arrived at in the table, remarks:

There can be no doubt that this was my father's last word on the subject

But I think that what he is referring to here is not Gil-Galad's name but his parentage. That is, the last word on Gil-Galad's parentage is that he was Orodreth's son. He certainly does not offer any evidence that the name 'Ereinion' in the 'Shibboleth' was superceded by the name 'Rodnor' in the genealogical table.

[Findegil]

Okay, so Ereinion it seems to be. But do we have a Quenya equivalent? Or would we take Aratanáro fro that still? Of course it is not absolutly necessary for him to have a Quenya name, and it not necessary for us to have give one.

Respectfully
Findegil