Middle-earth Bad Popularity Cup - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morthoron · 02-03-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Typical talk from an elf fan.

I have a much different picture on Thranduil, but that is a different topic for another time.

Kingly right? Mule fritters!

You forget that Thorin was also a King!

King? Of what? Actually, Thorin would have been barbequed Naugrim-bites(tm) if it hadn't been for Bard of Dale, Dain of the Iron Hills and Thranduil of Mirkwood (yes, Thranduil, my confused dwarvish dupe). Thorin was literally given his throne back by the blood of Men, Elves, and Dwarves (like Dain's folk, who were not homeless vagrants like Thorin).

As far as your take on Thranduil, your obvious dorf-bias casts a pall over your short-sighted sensibilities. I suggest you reread the book and get back to me when you can come up with a reasonable argument.

Tuor in Gondolin · 02-03-2009, 07:11 PM

Master Of Laketown-3
Old Man Willow-3

MoL wins on tiebreaker.

Next: Maeglin vs. The Witch King

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-04-2009, 06:01 AM

++The WK

With no question. Okay, I did not want to say it when we were voting about Eöl not to lose support of those who liked his son, but not him, but let's face it: he is as stupid as his father! Actually, he reminds me of teenage Anakin Skywalker...

Whereas WK is so charming, so clever (sometimes), he is a Nazgul (that's the main point. He is cool!), and what more, he is a fallen Númenorean lord!

And he is not afraid of entering the River (Bruinen).

And he fought Glorfindel (and Gandalf (and Éowyn, of course) ).

Oh, and he is the lord of Minas Morgul! Now come on, one of the coolest cities in Middle-Earth? (Forget the weird, even though not that bad by itself, portrayal of it in the movies... I just don't imagine the city like that.)

And, he called the Barrow-Wights to dwell in the Barrow-Downs in the first place! Now come on, isn't that a reason by itself to vote him?

Morthoron · 02-04-2009, 06:09 AM

Funny thing, I would vote for Eol, but I wouldn't vote for Maeglin. At least Eol showed some testicular fortitude in going to Gondolin to get his family back; Maeglin, however, was whiney and weak, and was cowed by Morgoth when Elves such as Fingolfin and Maedhros were not.

++The WiKi

Andsigil · 02-04-2009, 09:12 AM

Dante reserved the Second Round of the Ninth Circle of Hell (Antenor) especially for traitors to political entities, such as party, city, or country. Maeglin deserves to be boiled in pitch in some particularly awful spot in Mandos's Halls for betraying Gondolin to Morgoth.

++Witch King because I despise him less.

Aganzir · 02-04-2009, 12:01 PM

++Maeglin

I suppose I've always had a liking for proud losers.

Thinlómien · 02-04-2009, 12:18 PM

++Maeglin

He's cool.
He's a charming, proud bad boy.

He's not a simple villain or hero.

I pity him.

(And besides, his name is nice and it sounds a bit like the name of someone really cool...

)

As for the W-K, his doings in Angmar are cool, the Nazgûl are cool and it would be interesting to know how they were before they became evil (I've always wanted to do an RPG on that topic), but somehow, I don't know, he's just pretty lame. I just don't find him very interesting. (The Nazgûl lose 90% of their scariness after FotR anyway.)

In short, if you put me to choose between an interesting, tragic half-villain and a villain who's simply a villain (or maybe was less so in some distant past of which we're told nothing), my choice is clear.

edit: xed and agreed with Agan

Macalaure · 02-04-2009, 12:29 PM

Maeglin is not a simple villain, but merely a poor little boy whose cruel cousin would not marry him because of some feigned "incest" reason.

She would belong in here!

The Witch King, however, is the Witch King. The Witch King! He's the ruddy Witch King people!

The! Witch! King!

++WitchKing

(-- nasty little hobbitses witch nasty little magic swords)

Nogrod · 02-04-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

As for the W-K, his doings in Angmar are cool, the Nazgûl are cool and it would be interesting to know how they were before they became evil (I've always wanted to do an RPG on that topic), but somehow, I don't know, he's just pretty lame. I just don't find him very interesting. (The Nazgûl lose 90% of their scariness after FotR anyway.)

Here I must agree with Lommy wholeheartedly.

And then just think about the fact that the Nazgûl were the scariest and most interesting in the FotR but they were also just incompetent losers who couldn't even win a party of a ranger and four hobbits in the middle of nowhere!

So not are they only a bit lame as characters but they are ones Tolkien flip-flopped to no limit. So what does it tell one? They were not actual dramatic characters or persons but just filled a role in the storyline, puppets of the plot and nothing more.

Although I agree with many that it would have been interesting to learn more about their past deeds especially as human kings. But that wish only betrays the problem: they are not full-grown characters.

So therefore:

++ Maeglin

(Who sure is a character!)

And also because of trying to make this a contest and not just a walk-through for the WK.

Groin Redbeard · 02-04-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andsigil

++Witch King because I despise him less.

My sentiments exactly! Sic Semper Tyrannis!

Besides, The Witch King makes up some of the most interesting parts of Middle-earth history ever. The rise of Angmar and the fall of the Northern Kingdom is amazing to read!

++Witch King

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lommy

(I've always wanted to do an RPG on that topic)

I heard that!

02-03-2009, 07:11 PM	#2
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Master Of Laketown-3 Old Man Willow-3 MoL wins on tiebreaker. Next: Maeglin vs. The Witch King __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

02-04-2009, 06:01 AM	#3
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	++The WK With no question. Okay, I did not want to say it when we were voting about Eöl not to lose support of those who liked his son, but not him, but let's face it: he is as stupid as his father! Actually, he reminds me of teenage Anakin Skywalker... Whereas WK is so charming, so clever (sometimes), he is a Nazgul (that's the main point. He is cool!), and what more, he is a fallen Númenorean lord! And he is not afraid of entering the River (Bruinen). And he fought Glorfindel (and Gandalf (and Éowyn, of course) ). Oh, and he is the lord of Minas Morgul! Now come on, one of the coolest cities in Middle-Earth? (Forget the weird, even though not that bad by itself, portrayal of it in the movies... I just don't imagine the city like that.) And, he called the Barrow-Wights to dwell in the Barrow-Downs in the first place! Now come on, isn't that a reason by itself to vote him? __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-04-2009, 06:09 AM	#4
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	Funny thing, I would vote for Eol, but I wouldn't vote for Maeglin. At least Eol showed some testicular fortitude in going to Gondolin to get his family back; Maeglin, however, was whiney and weak, and was cowed by Morgoth when Elves such as Fingolfin and Maedhros were not. ++The WiKi __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

02-04-2009, 09:12 AM	#5
Andsigil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin Posts: 733	Dante reserved the Second Round of the Ninth Circle of Hell (Antenor) especially for traitors to political entities, such as party, city, or country. Maeglin deserves to be boiled in pitch in some particularly awful spot in Mandos's Halls for betraying Gondolin to Morgoth. ++Witch King because I despise him less. __________________ Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness.

02-04-2009, 12:01 PM	#6
Aganzir Woman of Secret Shadow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells Posts: 4,511	++Maeglin I suppose I've always had a liking for proud losers. __________________ He bit me, and I was not gentle.

02-04-2009, 12:18 PM	#7
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	++Maeglin He's cool. He's a charming, proud bad boy. He's not a simple villain or hero. I pity him. (And besides, his name is nice and it sounds a bit like the name of someone really cool... ) As for the W-K, his doings in Angmar are cool, the Nazgûl are cool and it would be interesting to know how they were before they became evil (I've always wanted to do an RPG on that topic), but somehow, I don't know, he's just pretty lame. I just don't find him very interesting. (The Nazgûl lose 90% of their scariness after FotR anyway.) In short, if you put me to choose between an interesting, tragic half-villain and a villain who's simply a villain (or maybe was less so in some distant past of which we're told nothing), my choice is clear. edit: xed and agreed with Agan __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

02-04-2009, 12:29 PM	#8
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	Maeglin is not a simple villain, but merely a poor little boy whose cruel cousin would not marry him because of some feigned "incest" reason. She would belong in here! The Witch King, however, is the Witch King. The Witch King! He's the ruddy Witch King people! The! Witch! King! ++WitchKing (-- nasty little hobbitses witch nasty little magic swords)