Middle-earth Bad Popularity Cup - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thinlómien · 02-03-2009, 05:21 AM

++Old Man Willow

I couldn't vote the Master of Laketown for personal reasons, suffice to say that his youngest son was a jerk.

Tuor in Gondolin · 02-03-2009, 08:00 AM

A difficult choice, and surprisingly, both in
some ways are the most "sympathetic" of
the rogues in this gallery. Old Man Willow
and his chums have been harassed, attacked,
and destroyed for centuries with their patrimony
drastically reduced- more then any by relatives
of the very people going through his forest remnant.

And The Master (related to Dr. Who's
old nemesis?

) while he was the teensiest bit corrupt,
did a good job seeing to the economic and political
health of Laketown (including solid Laketown/elf relations).

So since I'm in a state that is going increasingly blue
I think I'll go for the candidate who (with all his flaws)
is more attuned to vox populi .

+ + The Master Of Laketown

Groin Redbeard · 02-03-2009, 10:36 AM

++The Master of Laketown

Old Man Willow just doesn't have enough substance. The Master of Laketown actually talks!

P.S. Why was The Master of Laketown (we have got to abbreviate that name) put in the evil category? Although he was conniving and corrupt, I never considered him to be evil. Speaking of evil, why isn't Thranduil on the list?

Morthoron · 02-03-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

P.S. Why was The Master of Laketown (we have got to abbreviate that name) put in the evil category??

Well, aside from being a coward, he was a manipulative thief, who stole gold meant for aiding the widows and fatherless shildren of Laketown. But as with all such villains in Middle-earth, Tolkien has him starve to death alone in the wilderness. I am sure he would have a place on the board of Haliburton if he lived today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Speaking of evil, why isn't Thranduil on the list?

One might as well ask why Thorin isn't listed among villains; after all, it was due to his stupid greed that Laketown was destroyed and many people died needlessly. In addition, he nearly caused a war between Dwarves and Elves and Men. Thranduil? he imprisoned the dwarves for trespassing and stirring up the deadly spiders (as was his kingly right), but he didn't abuse them, and he also benvolently aided Bard and the people of Laketown when they most needed it. I don't get your point.

Tuor in Gondolin · 02-03-2009, 12:51 PM

Other debatable villains:
Feanor (probably not)
Caranthir and Curunir (probably)
Thingol (probably not...but)
Saeros (very probably)

Andsigil · 02-03-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

Other debatable villains:
Feanor (probably not)
Caranthir and Curunir (probably)
Thingol (probably not...but)
Saeros (very probably)

I would consider Feanor a villain. Nothing can excuse, or atone for, the Kinslaying.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-03-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

Other debatable villains:
Feanor (probably not)
Caranthir and Curunir (probably)
Thingol (probably not...but)
Saeros (very probably)

Saeros is definitely a negative character, but not sure if I would call him a villain, poor one, he is the most disgusting character ever.
Caranthir and... Curufin, you probably mean? But it's Celegorm and Curufin; Caranthir is the third one. At least the two of them are definitely villains, Caranthir is quite nice (he helps the Men after they are decimated by the Orcs... even though late).

But hey, I would not really make such a trouble out of that. I would not stretch it: we have some list and I suggest we stick to it, even now it's quite enough of them.

And certainly, at least this far, we have been sticking to villains (more or less, let's say the Master of Laketown being on the border, but being still there). With those listed above, we'd be somewhat crossing the border... because then what about Denethor etc...

Aganzir · 02-03-2009, 03:17 PM

Hey Fëanor and his sons are far from evil! ♥

++ Old Man Willow

I've disliked the Master of Laketown even before the RPG that featured his jerk son, whereas the Old Forest is one of my favourite places in Middle-earth. Old Man Willow is a lovely character, and I even managed to include him in the werewolf game I modded.

The atmosphere when he traps the hobbits is ever so wonderful.

Andsigil · 02-03-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Well, aside from being a coward, he was a manipulative thief, who stole gold meant for aiding the widows and fatherless shildren of Laketown. But as with all such villains in Middle-earth, Tolkien has him starve to death alone in the wilderness. I am sure he would have a place on the board of Haliburton if he lived today.

Strange... I'd always pictured him more as an ACORN director.

++Master of Laketown for being a slimy, skullduggering poltroon.

Groin Redbeard · 02-03-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

One might as well ask why Thorin isn't listed among villains; after all, it was due to his stupid greed that Laketown was destroyed and many people died needlessly. In addition, he nearly caused a war between Dwarves and Elves and Men.

Typical talk from an elf fan.

I have a much different picture on Thranduil, but that is a different topic for another time.

Quote:

Thranduil? he imprisoned the dwarves for trespassing and stirring up the deadly spiders (as was his kingly right)...

Kingly right? Mule fritters!

You forget that Thorin was also a King!

Morthoron · 02-03-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Typical talk from an elf fan.

I have a much different picture on Thranduil, but that is a different topic for another time.

Kingly right? Mule fritters!

You forget that Thorin was also a King!

King? Of what? Actually, Thorin would have been barbequed Naugrim-bites(tm) if it hadn't been for Bard of Dale, Dain of the Iron Hills and Thranduil of Mirkwood (yes, Thranduil, my confused dwarvish dupe). Thorin was literally given his throne back by the blood of Men, Elves, and Dwarves (like Dain's folk, who were not homeless vagrants like Thorin).

As far as your take on Thranduil, your obvious dorf-bias casts a pall over your short-sighted sensibilities. I suggest you reread the book and get back to me when you can come up with a reasonable argument.

Tuor in Gondolin · 02-03-2009, 07:11 PM

Master Of Laketown-3
Old Man Willow-3

MoL wins on tiebreaker.

Next: Maeglin vs. The Witch King

02-03-2009, 05:21 AM	#1
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	++Old Man Willow I couldn't vote the Master of Laketown for personal reasons, suffice to say that his youngest son was a jerk. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

02-03-2009, 08:00 AM	#2
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	A difficult choice, and surprisingly, both in some ways are the most "sympathetic" of the rogues in this gallery. Old Man Willow and his chums have been harassed, attacked, and destroyed for centuries with their patrimony drastically reduced- more then any by relatives of the very people going through his forest remnant. And The Master (related to Dr. Who's old nemesis? ) while he was the teensiest bit corrupt, did a good job seeing to the economic and political health of Laketown (including solid Laketown/elf relations). So since I'm in a state that is going increasingly blue I think I'll go for the candidate who (with all his flaws) is more attuned to vox populi . + + The Master Of Laketown __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' Last edited by Tuor in Gondolin; 02-03-2009 at 12:39 PM.

02-03-2009, 10:36 AM	#3
Groin Redbeard Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Facing the world's troubles with Christ's hope! Posts: 1,635	++The Master of Laketown Old Man Willow just doesn't have enough substance. The Master of Laketown actually talks! P.S. Why was The Master of Laketown (we have got to abbreviate that name) put in the evil category? Although he was conniving and corrupt, I never considered him to be evil. Speaking of evil, why isn't Thranduil on the list? __________________ I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Their old, familiar carols play. And wild and sweet the words repeatof peace on earth, good-will to men! ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow Last edited by Groin Redbeard; 02-03-2009 at 10:41 AM.

02-03-2009, 12:51 PM	#5
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Other debatable villains: Feanor (probably not) Caranthir and Curunir (probably) Thingol (probably not...but) Saeros (very probably) __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

02-03-2009, 03:17 PM	#8
Aganzir Woman of Secret Shadow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells Posts: 4,511	Hey Fëanor and his sons are far from evil! ♥ ++ Old Man Willow I've disliked the Master of Laketown even before the RPG that featured his jerk son, whereas the Old Forest is one of my favourite places in Middle-earth. Old Man Willow is a lovely character, and I even managed to include him in the werewolf game I modded. The atmosphere when he traps the hobbits is ever so wonderful. __________________ He bit me, and I was not gentle.

02-03-2009, 07:11 PM	#12
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Master Of Laketown-3 Old Man Willow-3 MoL wins on tiebreaker. Next: Maeglin vs. The Witch King __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'