Middle-earth Bad Popularity Cup

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm also attaching myself to Skip here:
In the movie-version the army of the dead was just an annoying Deus ex machina, but it was something like that in the books as well. Using a Finnish expression, it was "glued over" the story eg. not an inherent part of it.

Nonsense! Why is it so bad? Come on, it was foreseen there and all sorts of these things, what would you like to have, four and half Dúnedain arriving from the North just to make the army of Rohirrim four and half men stronger, for no particular reason, much like the so-called Elves in the movie at Helm's Deep? Bah! The Oathbreakers were cool, and this Grey Company, although it never interested me, to be honest, as there's really hardly anything about their doings in the books, fits there. Imagine Gimli and Legolas charging onto the Mordor armies on Pelennor along with the Rohirrim. Impossible! The whole passage through the Paths of the Dead, and dealing with the Corsairs was quite good - and it would have been probably even better if we could learn more of it there, true. I think the problem of it being deus-ex-machinish is just in that there was too little space given to this episode (of course, the book is not inflatable, or at least should not be, unlike many other, especially fantasy books we can see today), so it had to be sort of cut short: Dead came, Corsairs are finished. One or two pages of maneuvering around Pelargir would have been good as well. But actually, when I read that part now, I am quite content even with this way of using it.

That's not to say anything of Ancalagon. I would have probably chosen him over Eöl as well. But there surely will be enough dragons... (and just as Nogrod said, they are for real. Quite. )

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate

Nonsense! Why is it so bad? Come on, it was foreseen there and all sorts of these things, what would you like to have, four and half Dúnedain arriving from the North just to make the army of Rohirrim four and half men stronger
...
Imagine Gimli and Legolas charging onto the Mordor armies on Pelennor along with the Rohirrim. Impossible!

That's just to the point! They were losing and they were losing badly. So the Deus ex machina comes to save them all!

And on the contrary I always found this grey company the most intriguing thing... something I would have loved to read more about - just like lord Imrahil and all these South-Gondorians. One could have made a heroic standing with those as well but it would still have meant defeat I'm afraid... and you can't end the story without the good guys winning now can you?

So let's come up with a whole army unforeseen to anyone who will make the difference in the battle at tyhe last minute? Now what was the definition of the Deus ex machina again?

I'm yet not convinced...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Several hours left to vote. So far

Eol 4
KotD 3

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Now to business - the fact is, Eöl is a horrible pig

Oh, I couldn't have phrased that better, sis

Originally Posted by Nogrod

That's just to the point! They were losing and they were losing badly. So the Deus ex machina comes to save them all!

And on the contrary I always found this grey company the most intriguing thing... something I would have loved to read more about - just like lord Imrahil and all these South-Gondorians. One could have made a heroic standing with those as well but it would still have meant defeat I'm afraid... and you can't end the story without the good guys winning now can you?

So let's come up with a whole army unforeseen to anyone who will make the difference in the battle at tyhe last minute? Now what was the definition of the Deus ex machina again?

Now actually you bring up something interesting, which would, however, almost be for a separate thread. You made me think what if the Dead did not come out and Aragorn would have stormed Pelargir just with several Lamedonians... the main problem would be still that the Corsairs would, as soon as possible, have left to the North anyway... but I thought it would have been far more cool if they started to wreak havoc around the Southern Gondor, and after the battle at Pelennor (which would have been likely a bit more disasterous, although still possible of being victorious), there will be no march to the Black Gate, but everybody would have needed to pack their stuff and go to liberate Pelargir and all the southern provinces... intriguing, I say.

And speaking of South Gondorians, this captain of theirs had a cool name - Angbor. Now that's a guy I would have liked to hear more about...

But here we are going off-topic

But come on, people - a few hours still left, doesn't anyone vote for the King of the Dead? He is nice! He has a spear! And is scaring young Rohanian princes to death! Come on!

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Shelob

P. S. Also, a change, like the dragons there are
a surfeit of trolls, so if there are no
objections I've replaced Bert with the
mayor of Laketown (Tolkien's literary
cautionary tale of democracy? )

P.P.S. Saruman wasn't included.
Should he be given a second chance even though
he disappointed in Skip's tournament?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

P. S. Also, a change, like the dragons there are
a surfeit of trolls, so if there are no
objections I've replaced Bert with the
mayor of Laketown (Tolkien's literary
cautionary tale of democracy? )

Yes! Now that sounds good. Although, isn't it unfair for Bert to be outed when Tom and Bill are around? At least I like him more than Tom. I say, you shouldn't make too many changes in the lists anyway... let it be as it is... but of course, for this one minor change...

P.P.S. Saruman wasn't included.
Should he be given a second chance even though
he disappointed in Skip's tournament?

Well, you know, I wouldn't do so. I think it will be quite unfair to the others. He will be too much different from most of those who are here, and he's been in one tournament already, and also... he is not bad, he is good