Tolkien and Psychedelics

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow they will all be illegal......

Hmmm....would that be termed Epicureannihilation?

[Lalwendë]

I'm for the high jump if the thought police call round because I now have a growing stash of about two dozen 100w tungsten lightbulbs :P

Anyway...what brought me back onto this thread was a memory of Tolkien's friendship with one of the Inklings who was apparently keen on the Golden Dawn occult 'movement' and for the life of me, I can't remember which one it was.... However, such topics must have been amongst those discussed amongst them?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Anyway...what brought me back onto this thread was a memory of Tolkien's friendship with one of the Inklings who was apparently keen on the Golden Dawn occult 'movement' and for the life of me, I can't remember which one it was.... However, such topics must have been amongst those discussed amongst them?

Charles Williams was a member of the Golden Dawn, & Lewis had apparently been interested in the 'occult' as a young man. Williams was always a bit of an odd cove, as a reading of some of his letters will reveal (he had a bit of a sadistic streak, as anyone who has read his letters to Lois Lang-Sims will be aware). I can understand why Tolkien didn't get along with him. Back on topic though, anyone interested in Tolkien's take on this subject might find Notion Club Papers worth a look.

[Sindarin Shaman]

Hello, I found this thread through a random google search of "Tolkien's Elves and psychedelics"....Well met. I first read LoTR and the Hobbit 16 years ago as a 14 year old....I have also been interested in shamanism since that time, and altered states of consciousness.

I don't have much time to read the previous posts right now, my apologies, but want to say that I totally relate to your first post, Sardy. Tolkien's words are magnificent, but even what is between them is, too. A man would not have the drive, creativity and inspiration to bother creating Middle Earth if he were not truly interested in contemplating the unlocked human potential...much of which I think he embodies in the Elves....telepathy, awareness of nature's mind, of the inter-connectedness. Reading Tolkien's books are, at best, a psychedelic experience in themselves...(well, everything that has an effect on the mind and soul is a psychedelic experience!....although the word has been given bad press in our modern culture.)

In this video below, at 1:06:13.....that is totally along the vein of Tolkien's Elves! After all, Tolkien was a linguist....a scholar of the meaning of words....in some sense, a shaman in that he had a fascination with the meanings attached to words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD72W57wEJc

I hope to revive this discussion! thanks for starting it, and I look forward to sharing with you.

[Sardy]

So glad to see this thread revived!!! I do have a lot more to say on the subject, and will be back when time permits. For now, here is an absolutely wonderful and brilliant essay discussing Tolkien, mind expansion and shamanism:

http://www.realitysandwich.com/tolki..._consciousness

[Ulvenok]

I think this discussion will eventually lead to either smoking or wine, I don't think the hobbits ever were on any psychedelics in the book. If you read it and while doing that found it to be strange or otherwordly. It's probably because you felt you were on psychedelics, not necessarly the hobbits lol. But it's understandable, many of the things Tolkien describes is foreign to most people. Ever been on a lake fishing at noon, ever been on the top of a norwegian mountain flower field? Nature is capable of making one feel one is on psychedelics and Tolkien's description of star light and sleeping in some tree or whatever it was, can to the imaginative reader or maybe unexperienced reader be interpreted as psychedelic.

But how to move away from psychedelics, since the hobbits nor Tolkien ever used them. Was there any wine or smoking god, one would think since smoking is such a big thing in middle earth, there would be some maia "responsible" for it, like Bacchus or Dionysus were to the greeks. I remember the Numenorians came with wine to middle earth, but they must have learnt it from the elves, but where did the elves learn it? As for smoking where did man learn to grow and use that, I don't think the elves were very interested in smoking, more of a hobbit thing. I'm sure some of you would know.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

The hobbits seemed to be the race in which smoking was the most popular, and they didn't really care about gods or religion. If I remember rightly, the Numenoreans worshiped Eru, and no one else before Sauron came and corrupted them. Does anyone know if the elves in Middle-earth actually worshiped the Valar or Eru? They obviously knew about higher beings, but when it came time to acknowledge them, there was just a nod or a moment of silence out of respect, like Faramir did before he ate. In any case, smoking and drinking were not religious practises in Middle-earth. If anyone has a quote or information that would prove that statement wrong, I would love to hear about it.

Christians believe that God created this world for us, that the mountains and trees and oceans, all of the beautiful things found in nature were created as a sort of love letter for us. Obviously, there are many spiritual things to find in nature, or at least things that appear spiritual, because there are many religions and movements centred around it. Many Christians go into a place of natural surroundings, like Denali or Yellowstone to grow closer to God. If we are including religious worship and devotion in with "psychedelics" then, I think, that we could include communing with God in nature. J.R.R. Tolkien was a lover of nature, and I think that he may have specifically searched it out for a spiritual experience. That is evident in his writings. The elves and hobbits had a soft spot for natural surroundings. There are many gardeners (perhaps all) who feel a connection with the dirt that could be described as spiritual.

I'm afraid I've gone off topic, or at least strayed from whatever I was trying to say. I think the main point of this was J.R.R. Tolkien probably had something like one of those "experiences" by communing with God in nature.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Hmmm....would that be termed Epicureannihilation?

Well, it doesn't sound like many here would call it an epicure's eucatastrophe (or would that be epicuecatastrophe?)