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01-16-2009, 04:58 PM | #1 |
Shade of Carn Dūm
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Patriotism and the Lord of the Rings
Im visiting Washington D.C. for inauguration and this has gotten me thinking about patriotism. And as I am wont to do, Ive been thinking about Lord of the Rings as well. Naturally, this combination is what birthed this thread.
What sort of patriotism is there is the Lord of the Rings? Is it similar or different from patriotism in todays world? Think about the Shire. The Shire is comprised of different groups of families, many of whom hold grudges against one another and probably would not want to be associated with one another (see: Gamgees and Brandybucks). Because of this, can the Shire be defined as a country? It has no central government, but it has definitive borders. Its inhabitants are definitely what I would describe as patriotic (For the Shire!), but are they patriots only for their area of residence (i.e. Hobbiton)? The only time they unite is under direct threat from an outside source (see: Saruman and Wormtongue). When Saruman was defeated, do you think that the hobbits became more unified? (It doesnt seem to me that hobbits unite by race, only because the hobbits of Bree did not come to the aid of the Shire-hobbits in the Scouring). What does this mean in the real world? How is the response of hobbits when under threat from a foreign enemy different or similar to the response of Americans after 9/11 or Palestinians today? And then theres Gondor. Gondor is easier to define using real world terms because their government is defined in a more familiar way. I would define Gondorians as patriotic, because we can see in many arenas how they are willing to die for their country (Boromir, Faramir etc.). How do the people of Gondor show their patriotism under the rule of Denethor versus the rule of Aragorn? And yadayada what do you guys think about other cultures? What about the Elves (Rivendell, Lothlorien, Noldor even?) What about the Rohirrim (or Rohanites as Lush would say )? How come they didnt overthrow Theoden, even though he was poisoned by Saruman? What does Tolkiens portrait of the affairs in Middle- Earth say about his views on patriotism as a whole? And then maybe you think this is all a load of something from the back-end of Shadowfax, so tell me that too |
01-16-2009, 07:55 PM | #2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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To me, since it seems that patriotism is most commonly defined as love of or devotion to country, the kind of patriotism one sees in LotR would depend on how the inhabitants view the land in which they live. Gondor and Rohan appear to have a very clear view of their lands as sovereign nations, and one does see overt love of country shown among their peoples (Boromir, Faramir, and Theoden come most strongly to my mind). The Hobbits seem to have a looser sense of the Shire as a nation, but their love of their land does become evident when their backs are pushed to the wall by the ruffians (a splendid example, I think, of Gandalf's assertion that Hobbits are "brave in a pinch," a situation they try very hard to avoid). The marchwardens of Lothlorien appear quite dedicated to the defense of their land, but I sometimes wonder if they are more devoted to Celeborn and Galadriel than to any sense of "country." Then again, is "country" an actual place, or a sense of community not dependent on a physical location? I think that for the mortals, a sense of physical place is important, as the land is passed down from generation to generation, but among the Elves, it might be less so, since in a long, immortal lifetime, one might get bored with staying in one place (as some of the Noldor did in Valinor), but could carry a devotion to a specific group of people from place to place.
Something to think about....
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01-16-2009, 09:34 PM | #3 | |
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If you look at history, particularly in the manner a philologist like Tolkien would, then the migration of clans, including their societal norms, customs and language, would take precedence over nationalism, which is a relatively new process in time. Patriotism, then, should be viewed as an Anglo-Saxon, Celt, Goth or a Norman would see it; that is, identifying with kin or clan over the physical boundaries of a given realm. In France, for instance, it wasn't until the 15th century that there was a consolidation of power by the monarchy sufficient enough to weld disparate Burgundians, Armagnacs, Guiennese, etc., into a unified country. In the Dark Ages, the later Merovingian kings ruled only the Ile de Paris, and had varying influence outside that limited scope. Tolkien tracks migrations of clans throughout Middle-earth's history: The Eldar from Cuivienen to Aman, the Noldor back to Arda, 1st Age Men from the East, Numenoreons to Gondor and Harad, the Eotheod from Rhovanion to Rohan, the Wainriders and Balchoth from Rhun or Hildor, Hobbits from the Vale of Anduin to the Angle, to the Shire, etc. In nearly every case, the customs and the very nature of the migratory clans were preserved in the lands they conquered or settled, and the patriotism is far less national and more allied to the clan. Gondorions still relive their illustrious Numenorean past, The Rohirrim have progressed very little from their Northmen antecedents, and the Hobbits are clannish in the extreme.
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01-17-2009, 02:35 AM | #4 | |
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Some great food for thought here!
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Then you should take into account how settled a people are in their land and as Morthoron says, migrants might feel less connected to their land. The Rohirrim definitely give the impression of being a relatively 'new' and developing culture in Rohan (their wealth is portable, their literature still oral and not in libraries) - so their loyalties are to their people and less so to their land. Maybe this is why they do not challenge Theoden in his madness? Another thought springs to mind about Hobbits. Their sense of loyalty is much quieter and yet they can be stirred into making a big show of their feelings. Very like the British who believe it or not generally do not like a lot of flag waving and find it ostentatious and mutter about 'jingoism' and the like - sometimes this is put down to the appropriation of the national flag and other symbols by the far right (Billy Bragg wrote about this idea) but it's also down to feeling simply embarrassed However, if the occasion warrants it, the flags and the pitchforks are brought out with gusto!
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01-17-2009, 09:14 AM | #5 | |
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One does wonder about the Dwarves, though...
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01-18-2009, 01:27 PM | #6 | |||
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Haldir tells the fellowship that they "live now upon an island amid many perils" and that he fears that if "the Shadow will draw back" Quote:
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01-18-2009, 03:05 PM | #7 | |
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You touched on something in your first post, AOR, which I think deserves more attention than it is getting: one's ancestors. Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, and even Humans put great stock on their ancestors. For example, when people meet, their house, or a great ancestor comes into play. Take, for example, the simple meeting between Frodo and Gildor. Frodo was a simple Hobbit and would not have known any of the great figures of Elven history, as Gildor probably knew, yet Gildor introduced himself as being a par of the house of Finrod.
[QUOTE=Three is Company]'I am Gildor,' Answered their leader, the Elf who had first hailed him. 'Gildor Inglorion of the house of Finrod.'] Similar happenings like this are common in the books. Tolkien seems to put great emphasis on the heritage of ancestors and ten to one, I think, that people take greater pride in the family than in country. Love of country is much stronger with Men than any other race. The Dwarves, as well as the Elves divided themselves by their houses: the Broadbeams of Belegost, the Firebeards of Nogrod, the Longbeards of Khazad-dum, ext. Yet family just doesn't seem to cut it for the Dwarves. Born at the Lonely Mountain at the height of its glory, Thorin was just 24 years old when his people were driven into exile by the dragon Smaug. He fled with his father Thrįin II and his grandfather King Thrór, but his grandfather was devastated by the loss and left his people, wandering south with a single companion, Nįr. Thrįin meanwhile led the exiles to Dunland, where they eeked out a meager living. The colony moving to Dunland, instead of moving in with their relatives in the Iron Hills or the Blue Hills, shows that rugged individualism that many people find appealing for the Dwarves. A will to make it on their own, or not make it at all and (just like Hobbits) are able to come to one another's aid in a crisis [such as the War Between Orcs and Dwarves]. Without their home in the Lonely Mountains, however, those Dwarves seem to dwindle until Thorin reclaims it for them once again. The Dwarves are loathed to depart with anything that is there's, so yes land (or more precisely: their realms) would be a major contribution to their patriotism. We see this with Balin's premature attempt to retake Khazad-dum. Quote:
Theoden issue is easily solved as to why the people did not rise up in revolt. Monarchy was the only system of government known to the people and to suggest anything else would be just crazy talk. The king was appointed according to his family tree in the royal class, of course you are going to get a few bad heirs who are rotten kings, but for the majority that was tolerated so long as the majority of heirs were dutiful to the position of king (by the way it is interesting to note that almost all the kings in Tolkien's books show more patriotism than the ordinary individual). Love what you are saying Ibri. Nice job.
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01-18-2009, 04:35 PM | #8 | |
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Most commoners lived short, squalid lives, were dragged off to war by press gangs, and were slaughtered brutally on the battlefield without any comprehension about what they were actually fighting for. Whether they cared about which tyrant they fought for mattered little anyway. Those legless, armless or blinded individuals who escaped death were trundled off back home, given a tin cup and spent their remaining wretched lives begging for alms in front of their local cathedral. Was Gondor or Rohan any different? Perhaps. With Tolkien's rather Platonic view of enlightened kings (as opposed to the callousness and savagery of the actual monarchy), we would hope the commoners' lot was better. It is, after all, a fantasy.
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01-18-2009, 05:29 PM | #9 |
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Basically posting just to say that I totally agree with Mort'h last post...
In history patriotism seems to be an ideology for those who can afford it - or those who have been lured into it not realising their efforts (death and suffering) only help those who gain from the conflicts sacrificing nothing themselves. Okay. I admit being a bit too pessimistic on it up there. There sure are conflicts where people have actually fought literally for their friends and houses and their neighbours & their houses, and that is both brave and great. Although it's not automatically patriotic. But still many have fought for some higher glory be it nation, state or religion or some more vagueish thing like a concept ("freedom", "equality"). The question then becomes what is important enough fighting for and to whom? Or do peple actually fight for the reasons they believe they're fighting for? Like did the death of a Mid-Western 18-year old in Iraq help the cause of freedom? Did the death of an 18-year old Dunleding help the cause of their freedom from Rohan?
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01-18-2009, 06:20 PM | #10 | ||||||
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What about Tom Bombadil?
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01-20-2009, 06:40 AM | #11 | ||
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I'm glad I decided to read this thread after all, because it has made me think about stuff.
Unlike it has been argued, we actually get one common soldier's view of things: Beregond's. I think we would be right to call him a patriot, although his deepest loyalties lay with a single captain, Faramir. But is there in his admiration something of sharing Faramir's love of the country and the city? I think it seems so. So patriotism was not just for the nobility, but some commoners found it inspiring as well. (As a side issue, what would you guys say about Bergil? Is it simple boyishness sense of adventure that makes him stay in the city or is there actually patriotism involved?) At least patriotism is strongly involved in the scene where the different captains from other parts of Gondor come to Minas Tirith. Which leads me to think... did the Gondorians cherish the ethnic differences in their country - like in this scene, all the different "peoples" are presented and it shown in positive light that they have different armies with their sopecial abilities coming to the city and the people cheer at them all? But still, those who are the stars of the show are the sons of the old Dśnedain lordfs - the knights of Dol Amroth. More or less all the big Gondorian heroes are of Nśmenórean descent. Patriotism, it has a lot to do with nationalism and now I'm led to wonder if there were separatist movements inside Gondor. In our world, nationalism is a new-ish concept, but what about M-E? Did the "aborigines" of Gondor ever feel oppressed by the Dśnedain kings and folk? Did they desire to have a country of their own to rule as they will (for that sure is an ancient desire)? I think they generally accpeted the Dśnedain because they were treated well and a lot of good was done to them, and in the course of time the two peoples mingled so that most of Gondorians were of mixed blood. But the idea of a separatist "aborigine" clan somewhere in the mountains of western Gondor just sounds rather intriguing... Ok, now I got carried away. Back to the topic. Quote:
This, I think, applies to Elves in many other cases as well. So many kingdoms fell when their leaders fell. In Elvish systems, the leaders were the heart of the country even more permanently than in the monarchies of our worlds, where the leader changes from time to time simply because of the fact that people die. An interesting case to consider in this light is Nargothrond and its leader changes. I wonder if they affected the patriotism of the citizens a lot... should recall more of it. But Nargothrond thrived in felagund's time, before the arrival of Celegorm and Curufin, that's for sure. Quote:
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01-20-2009, 11:56 AM | #12 | |||||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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But in general, it seemed that the various parts of Gondor were quite a lot in contact with each other - for example, Ioreth had relatives in Imloth Melui, I have no idea where it was, but I gather that it was not quite next door. (Although, maybe all Ioreth's family was living in Imloth Melui, and only the young perspective girl just went for studies to Minas Tirith and started a big career...) Quote:
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01-20-2009, 04:37 PM | #13 | |
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Take a look at the contemporary accounts of the common Englishmen- and not just the impoverished, but yeoman farmers- who flocked voluntarily to the banners of Edward III and Henry V. Or consider the fact that a couple centuries later plays on the subject, stuffed full of flag-waving jingoism, would be immense popular hits with the Globe's penny groundlings- scant years after the Armada's defeat to general rejoicing. Or consider that during the Plantagenets' wars in France, the use of French was so 'unpatriotic' that it vanished from daily speech- giving rise to Middle English. (And the St George Flag as well). Or if you want to go back a bit, read some of Pericles' speeches- to a nation of citizen-soldiers. The Athenian underclass were slaves and didn't fight. Human beings are tribal, whether its football boosters or nations at war. We love to have an 'us,' to be contrasted with 'them.' EDIT to keep it on topic- the Rohirrim put up with Theoden's grandfather Fengel, a long-lived and lousy king.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didnt know, and when he didnt know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 01-20-2009 at 04:43 PM. |
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01-20-2009, 06:51 PM | #14 | |||
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This was also the case in 1066, as the Norman lords (and half the murderers of Europe) followed William the Bastard across the Channel to feast on Anglo-Saxon England. A grateful William gave out huge tracts of land to his lords, the only way his 'patriotic' pals would have remained in England after stripping it bare. Quote:
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But French never truly 'vanished' from daily speech, which is a preposterous exaggeration. Actually, Middle-English is a melding of French and Old English, if you follow the theory that M-E is a Creole language. Creolization is a linguistic process that reflects the maturation of an inferior language (in this case Anglo-Saxon) to reflect the sophistication and complexity of the dominant language (Norman French) over a prolonged period of time. As it is, there are countless French words still mucking up the language. Intriguingly, and germane to Creolization, is the number of borrowed French words used to define nobility and power in English. If one is a lowly peasant farmer, one has chickens, cows, lambs, sheep and pigs (all Anglo-Saxon variants); however, once the farm animals have been slaughtered and pass to the refined lord's plate, they have become poultry, beef, veal, mutton and pork (all derivative of French). In addition, the English parliamentary and judicial systems both rely heavily on French (the words parliamentary and judicial both, of course, borrowed from France). Now, to stay on topic after a lengthy diggression...let me see, let me see...ah yes, Rohan! Okay, I am relieved.
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01-20-2009, 08:17 PM | #15 |
Odinic Wanderer
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The question that Abers put forth about Theoden is interesting indeed. Groin sugests that it is because monarchy is the only thing known to inhabitans of Rohan, that might be, but I am not intirely convinced by the argument. Through history there have been plenty of cases where Kings have been overthrown, not to introduce a new system, but to introduce a new king. Obvious he would need to have some sort of claim to the throne, but those could be fabricated. . .
If Rohan had been truly patriotic, then surely they would overthrow their king who was under the influence of a foregin power? It seems that allegiance often lies with the royal families and other overlords and not so much to a country. . .at least that is the view I have. The elves surely are not patriotic. They have fought for personal gain and against a common enemy, but I have yet to see any sign of true patriotism. I would like to say more, but I have so many thoughts I need to process, especially about Elves and Gondor. |
01-20-2009, 10:58 PM | #16 | |||
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(Plantagent: yes, from Geoffrey comte d'Anjou- but it remained the English royal surname down to Bosworth Field). Quote:
Moving back in time, though: I doubt that even the fyrd at Hastings was devoid of patriotism, or at least a recognition that their freedom was under threat from a foreign culture and political system (as it was). Sure, the Free Companies were hyenas- but they preyed on French (including nominal English subjects when they could get away with it). The rise of patriotism runs in parallel with the rise of nation-states of a more-or-less ethno-linguistic character. While mercenaries were employed in most wars from the medieval period right down to the modern age, the two conflicts characterized by armies composed almost entirely of mercenaries were the arenas in which national formation had been arrested: Renaissance Italy and the Thirty Years' War.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didnt know, and when he didnt know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 01-20-2009 at 11:17 PM. |
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01-21-2009, 09:09 AM | #17 | |||
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01-21-2009, 09:32 AM | #18 | ||
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To veer back to the original topic for a moment... Finally got my computer and my book in the same place at the same time.
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03-30-2009, 08:02 AM | #19 |
Wight
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I think Patriotism is more than love and willingness to fight for the land. It's an 'us' and 'them' question that William mentioned.
Once a nation has been established the problem facing that place is what's our identity? Or in the words of Bismark...'We have created Germany, now it's time to create Germans.' Should Germany include Austria? Catholics? Those are the types of questions facing any nation. It was the same in the US, this is the Constitution of the United States of America, but what does it mean to be an American? Geography became one of the most important subjects of study, because it named things, it identified places. Maps were rampant. Land surveying was a popular profession. I'm not well versed in LOTR, but will ask a couple things and maybe something useful to add. What is the importance of maps in Middle-earth? Is it something to identify places, and within what are the people like? Why do people want to avoid Lorien and Fangorn? And The Hobbits, they might have a loose conception of The Shire as a 'nation,' but there is a distrust for outsiders and there even is an 'us' and 'them' identity from within....'There's something queer about that Bilbo, he's not like us - oh and those Bucklanders are odd too.' I think patriotism implies both, a sense of land, but also an identity. What does it mean to be a Gondorian? Denethor loved Boromir more than Faramir, but why? Was it because Faramir didn't represent Denethor's image of a 'Gondorian'?
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an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind Last edited by Kent2010; 03-30-2009 at 08:07 AM. |
03-30-2009, 08:23 AM | #20 | |
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A lot of this was I think Tolkien's oft-expressed dislike of homogenization. It was important to him that the Rohirrim live under their own laws notwithstanding Gondor's semi-suzerainity; and Gimli's folk at Aglaraond were an independent people under the 'protection' of the Crown. Similary the Shire was *not* placed under direct Arnorian rule, except for the basic obligations to "speed the King's messengers" and keep the Bridge in repair.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didnt know, and when he didnt know it. |
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04-01-2009, 05:12 PM | #21 |
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Isularity
Nice to see use of huge tracts of land and oppressed masses in the same thread
I like the ideas above that - Settled men and hobbits identified with 'their' land Nomadic men (and hobbits?) identified with their tribe Dwarves identified with what they or their ancestors had made (Moria, Jewellery etc) Elves identified with their leaders (which given their longevity in absence of nasty accidents covers land and tribe too in some ways) Caveats I suppose are the low population density of Middle Earth, and likely insularity of most inhabitants, after all Sam had never been more than 20 miles from home and might have considered Buckland 'foreign' let alone Bree. In todays world its strange to think how Dark Age kingdoms could be less than 50 miles wide, and that even comparatively recently there were great differences between counties (eg Cornwall and Devon; Yorks and Lancs) let alone countries.
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04-02-2009, 07:23 AM | #22 | |
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didnt know, and when he didnt know it. |
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04-03-2009, 05:27 AM | #23 | ||
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I see the "Rohanites" are now famous! I think that if I ever run away, I'll start a band called Lush & the Rohanites. Weird electro-pop. For children.
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But Boromir had already taught us, at that point, that patriotism can be meaningless, if not downright destructive, if you lose perspective. Faramir is able, to use a very over-used phrase - "think outside the box." There's something about the nature of the Ring that Faramir knows he can't afford to overlook, and that, perhaps, is true patriotism - thinking beyond the norm when you are called to do so.
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04-03-2009, 07:44 AM | #24 | |
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resistance, since ethics and morality should always trump "My country right or wrong".
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04-03-2009, 09:42 AM | #25 | |
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Even under the original Hague Convention of 1899, the first attempt to create or at least codify a Law of Armed Conflict, responsibility for a war crime fell entirely on the authority who ordered it: his subordinates could not be held culpable for obeying the order. In the Neumann Trial (1922) the Leipzig Supreme Court explicitly ruled that Befehl ist Befehl was a complete defense. (The Nuremburg Tribunals may have advanced 'human rights,' but as courts of law they were pretty much kangaroo courts).
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didnt know, and when he didnt know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 04-03-2009 at 10:05 AM. |
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04-03-2009, 09:59 AM | #26 | |
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William Cloud Hicklin wrote:
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04-03-2009, 10:31 AM | #27 |
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Actually, I meant 'modern' in a post-WWII sense. While one can trace the history of the notion to the enlightenment philosophers, and their practical students the American revolutionists, as a matter of recognized law I can't find a trace of it prior to the London Declaration (1944). The top Nazis deserved everything they got; but the technical basis for stringing them up was a blatant ex post facto exercise in retroactive law.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didnt know, and when he didnt know it. |
04-03-2009, 10:50 AM | #28 |
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All right, but surely there's a difference between a notion's existence or even prevalence and its codification in international law.
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04-03-2009, 11:30 AM | #29 | |
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With the SS the obediance argument may be made, because to deny an order in the SS was suicide, but the SS was pretty small compared to the ordinary Police Battalions that Browning writes about and that Trapp was a part of. Maybe this can be tied into patriotism because you see anti-semitism all over Europe throughout this time. In America too, in Nazi Germany the anti-semitism became radical and turned to genocide, but it existed everywhere. The idea of "we are superior," because we are Germans, French...etc stuck with everyone, not just those in charge.
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04-03-2009, 12:26 PM | #30 |
Loremaster of Annśminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,300
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Well, over 20,000 German soldiers were executed during the war for failing to carry out orders (of various sorts). It wasn't an idle threat.
But of course even by Nuremburg standards the argument from coercion would have been considered valid *if* the defendants could prove it (mostly they couldn't). The standard defense was "An order is an order," which according to normative law up until WWII *was* a complete defense. I don't deny that a very great many, probably the majority, of those Germans who took part of atrocities would have even if they did have (or believed they had) a choice. Human beings generally let power go to their heads (which is why they should be entrusted with as little of it as possible).
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didnt know, and when he didnt know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 04-03-2009 at 12:31 PM. |
04-03-2009, 12:47 PM | #31 | |
Wight
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 240
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Quote:
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an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind |
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04-03-2009, 01:06 PM | #32 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,499
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Reminder: The discussion concerns primarily LotR, not other wars...
Can haz on-topic?
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
04-04-2009, 12:34 PM | #33 | |
Fair and Cold
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Er... anyway... The comparison of Faramir to Von Stauffenburg is interesting. I've always thought about Faramir in the context of Mikhail Bulgakov for some reason... scribbling "The White Guard" as a hope against hope.
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~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~ |
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04-27-2009, 10:43 AM | #34 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 706
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Theoden's popularity and Gondorian patriotism
This is a very interesting topic; but I'd first like to give my contribution to one thing that has also been discussed here:
Theoden's popularity: Tolkien wrote in the essay 'The Battles of the Fords of Isen' in Unfinished Tales that Theoden's health began to fail 'early in 3014'. Before this sickness, he had been 'much loved by all his kin and people'. There had been unpopular kings in Rohan before. Theoden's grandfather and predecessor, Fengel, was 'not remembered with praise'. He was 'greedy of food and of gold, and at strife with his marshals, and with his children'. His son Thengel therefore went to Gondor and served the Steward. He married a Gondorian woman, and their eldest children, including Theoden, were born there. It appears that while Fengal might have been a bad king, he was probably not a tyrant, doing things that were 'unconstitutional'. The legitimacy of his rule was not in doubt. Presumably, this was also the case regarding Theoden under Grima's influence. He, at the latter's instigation, probably gave orders that, while unpopular, were not illegal. (Grima, or rather his true master, was too clever to make such an obvious error.) Gondorian patriotism: Looking at patriotism in general in The Lord of the Rings, I feel that Gondorians, their country being the nearest to a twentieth-century nation-state in the book, did have a sense of patriotism. They and previous generations had, after all, been fighting Sauron for millennia. Tolkien made it clear in his Letters that Sauron ‘desired to be a God-king…;if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world’. Early on in the book, Boromir pointed out that by the Gondorians' valour ‘alone are peace and freedom maintained in the lands behind us, bulwark of the West.’ When Galdor spoke of the ‘waning might of Gondor’, he was rebuked by Boromir: ‘Gondor wanes, you say. But Gondor stands, and even the end of its strength is still very strong.’ This pride in Gondor is also seen in Faramir, who says that while war was necessary, he only loved what it defended, ‘the city of the Men of Nśmenor; and I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, her beauty, and her present wisdom.’ Tolkien said that Faramir was the character most like him. This pride also existed among Gondorians in general, seen when Beregond, an ordinary soldier, told Pippin, ‘we have this honour: ever we bear the brunt of the chief hatred of the Dark Lord, for that hatred comes out of the depths of time and over the deeps of the Sea’. Gondor was also sophisticated enough to distinguish between the kingdom and the king, still enduring as a state despite having a vacant throne, the kings’ hereditary chief ministers ruling as hereditary regents, experienced in person by Pippin in Book 5, Chapter I, when he arrives in Minas Tirith. When he agreed to swear allegiance, he first swore ‘fealty and service to Gondor’. There also appears to be a song that resembles a national anthem, sung by Aragorn: Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea! West Wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old. O proud walls! White towers! O wingéd crown and throne of gold! O Gondor, Gondor! Shall men behold the Silver Tree, Or West Wind blow again between the mountains and the Sea? Among these references to Gondor’s geographical location and national symbols, there is also a reference to the Silver Tree. In 2852 T.A., the White Tree died; and because no seedling could be found, the ‘Dead Tree’ was ‘left standing’. Aragorn had earlier served in disguise King Thengel of Rohan and Ecthelion II of Gondor. The song may be a composition of Aragorn’s, or a partial and complete composition by another. If the second, the song may have been written after the death of that White Tree, looking back to happier times before the event, when Gondor was stronger, and wondering if they would return again. While it is nowhere described as a national anthem, that song is of such a nature and Gondor is such an 'advanced' state that the possibility exists of the latter having a national anthem. Last edited by Faramir Jones; 02-26-2010 at 05:50 PM. Reason: I wrote a plural instead of a singular |
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