T-I-G LV Sing when you're winning

[Boromir88]

If I'm a cobbler and I dreamed of Boro, I wouldn't bring attention to it. Or at least I'd try to make it look like something it wasn't, if I was forced to acknowledge him.~Fea

The critics lag one day behind in your information, also I would assume it would be a pretty nifty way to let them know "Hey I'm your spy! Don't kill me!" The cobbler usually is just as likely a wolf target as anyone else, but with the sneak ability, it's a clever way to key the critics into the fact that you're their cobbler.

I agree with Boro about lynching Fea, especially if the other candidate is me. I'm gradually getting more afraid also of him though.~Agan

Frightened Agan? If you be innocent you don't have to be. Believe that or not, your choice.

The most likely candidate for that is Aganzir, of course, but I'd be willing to listen if someone suggests somebody better.~Mac

And what if Fea has found the divo or one of the lovers? True, now that the Seer is gone, I think the Cobblers use is coming to an end, and maybe Fea is taking the noose for the critics.

But, a double lynch at this time could be dangerous, we were lucky on Day 1 it was only two ordos. I have no idea about Agan, considering what we have concluded about Fea, it doesn't look good that they were paired together by the seer. But we're talking about two dreams here, one we know was Fea, the other it's still up in there air. I'm not convinced he spotted two baddies in one night.

Also, let's be honest, we're talking about the other lynchee being Agan, who else are you willing to take a blind guess on? Strongbow? He's probably an Ordo. Maybe Cailin, she scares me. And now that Eomer's popped in and Legate's got votes - oh let's just get 'em all.

But anyway I hope you get the point, we have an hour and half left before the deadline. I say we take a sure shot with Fea, regroup, recharge, and definitely get more organized tomorrow. Trying a double lynch at this time, I think spells disaster.

Edit: x'ed and I mean "two baddies in two nights" not one. :rollseyes:

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Frightened Agan? If you be innocent you don't have to be. Believe that or not, your choice.

No it's just some things you've said and the way you've communicated with Fea. I would have to read your posts to elaborate on it, I'll do it some time later if need be. Now I'm busy with Mac.

[Boromir88]

No it's just some things you've said and the way you've communicated with Fea. I would have to read your posts to elaborate on it, I'll do it some time later if need be.~Agan

I'll give you that, but try to distinguish between the communication of two people in cahoots. And the communication of somebody innocent who will miss Fea's spirit and passion, no matter what her role is. Whether baddie or not, Fea brings a chutzpah to opera that I will greatly miss, but that won't get in the way of what needs to be done.

P.S. Lari, my lovers thing was more of an outrageous, off-the-wall theory, and not to have been taken seriously at all. Sorry for the confusion.

P.P.S But not totally, think about it, once one soulmate dies, the other gets revenge killing power - thus making the revengeful soulmate more powerful than the other.

[Kath]

And back.

Just a couple of notes on the most recent posts as I've just read them. Firstly I don't like that Fea has disappeared without voting. Yeah the Legate thing was stupid of us but if Mith decides to modfire that is up to her, and I think she would be far less cross if we then did something constructive rather than wussing out like Fea has seemed to do. I have been agreeing with those who think her suspicious based on tgwbs' posts but this to me makes her look supsicious on her own merits.

Also, a double lynch? I'm not sure that's a brilliant idea. We've already had one double lynch this game and it did us no good.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'll give you that, but try to distinguish between the communication of two people in cahoots. And the communication of somebody innocent who will miss Fea's spirit and passion, no matter what her role is.

No there were also some earlier things I noticed. I skimmed through her posts yesterday (at least I wasn't totally idle during that mad msn chat) to look at how she had communicated with people and there was something that set me off. Can't remember what it was though.

Deadline is quarter past again, right?

edit: xed with Kath

[Boromir88]

Can't remember what it was though.~Agan

Do whatever you have to to save yourself tomorrow Agan. Throw whoever you have to under the semi, the means don't matter, I understand.

And as far as I know, we end on the dot today.

Edit: By "on the dot" I mean 6:15...on the dot.

[Brinniel]

It seems to start with Boromir who said this in one post:

Originally Posted by Boro

I would prefer Ilya, Gollum, or Cailin, over Strongbow, sally, or Shasta, as far as submarines. [...]

I think Ilya is more likely to be a wolf than the other two I mentioned in the first sentence. It's arguable as to whether she's really submarine though, because she's posted the most out of them, but she's a submarine in the sense that she's going rather unnoticed.

As helpful as her quoting has been, it scares me, because it reminds me of so much of Brinn's strategy in The Republic. She did admit that's what she thought when posting, but I'm still not convinced she's entirely innocent. Also, I'm scratching my head as to what she saw from me to suspect Mac. Maybe it was from yesterday? The "oh and what Boro said about you too" is just - well suspicious.

On the flip side, Ilya would probably be the riskiest choice, and that is she will be participating more so than the other submarines. But, her behavior today seems to fit more with a Cobbler who could be posting a bunch of stuff and really not say anything about it. Plus saying some things that really don't make sense. Or a critic who saw how successful Brinn was with this strategy and tried the same.

Five minutes later, Fea lists who she's concerned about:

Originally Posted by Fea

Concerned
Boro
Ilya
Gwath

Aganzir considers voting Ilya, though she's slightly hesitant:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'd rather vote Ilya than Bowie although voting either of them would feel unfair as I don't have much of an idea about them.

Then comes Mac who gives a whole post suspecting Ilya:

Originally Posted by Mac

Some thoughts on Ilya, who recently rised in my suspicions.

Compare #195 to #223: First she doesn't know where the Nogrod case came from, then she says other people put suspicions against Nogrod (and Menel) in her mind and thus keeps herself out of the vote-fray. Also, first she considers voting Gollum for his case against Strongbow, then she votes Strongbow herself.

Today, while I appreciate all the work she put into all her quote-collections, I'm a bit unhappy with it because there's not much of her own opinions, which I consider more helpful about summary-posts than the summary. She does give her opinions later, but they are kind of simplistic putting-into-boxes like.

In #324 she defends Gwath in a not too convincing manner, which, since I'm suspicious of Gwath, makes me suspicious of her, too. There's also her point against me, which does not make a lot of sense, as Boro remarked, too.

If Ilya should be evil, I think a close look at Brinn might be justified - there seems to be a connection.

Fea comments:

Originally Posted by Fea

Mac, you're my hero, it was Ilya's quotes that set me off.

I'll explain soon.

Kath rushes in with comment about everyone, but votes Ilya:

Originally Posted by Kath

Ilya - says Agan and Lariren started the suspicions against Nog. Has done nothing but post quotes. Now that can be helpful, but not when we get none of her own comments in there. Did post with her thoughts, but there is some really odd reasoning behind them. Why would killing phantom be something Strongbow would want to do over anyone else? If Lariren was 'just kind of agreeing' and then changed direction then why is that suspicious? It just feels suspicious. What was that about a 48 Day, as we didn't have one the Day before why would she assume it?

++ILYA

I'd like to have gone through a bit more thoroughly but from what I've seen so far I think that posting all the quotes and the voting tally is trying to look helpful while actually not being and that the reasoning behind her suspicions seems very odd.

Mac makes his vote:

Originally Posted by Mac

I sense the danger of a last-minute bandwaggon against me, but since I can retract my vote if necessary, I'll vote now:

++Ilya

Clearly my top suspect right now, and there seems to be an actual chance to lynch her today, so no reason to hesitate for me.

(One thing: Why did he worry a last-minute bandwagon would go against him? The only one I saw who suspected him was Aganzir. Nervous much?)

Agan votes:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think I'm voting

++Ilya

too. Besides if her role is revealed I'll have some actual evidence concerning Mac.

Fea builds a case against Ilya:

Originally Posted by Fea

I was flipped out by Ilya's quote lists mostly because when I see quotes in anything I'm reading, I have a nasty habit of skipping them, because most of the time when something I read has a quoted off section like that, it's written in a language I don't know. Consequently, posts that consist almost entirely of quotes tend to completely throw me off because

1) the person looks like they're making points, but in reality they're just copy/pasting other people's out-of-context comments

2) my brain is conditioned to all but ignore them anyway (this is probably a trait singular to me, as it's caused by reading massive amounts of art and lit theory).

Basically, when I saw the lists of quotes, I harkened back to Freshman Writing Class and thought "Okay, so you filled up page space. What's your point?" I was bothered that Ilya didn't have an argument that she was supporting, instead it seemed like she was just organizing.

Which while I admit that I OCD adore organizing, I kept waiting and waiting for some sort of reasoning as to what Ilya actually thought, as opposed to what Ilya's organization skills are.

I was thrown off wholly by having to sit my way through what felt like a lot of carefully wasted space without having the payoff of Ilya actually giving us anything personal to go on.

It's like judging the opinion of somebody who's reading a script, you know? I want your own words, not somebody else's.

Probably why I write the stuff I do, and ignore the stuff with MLA citations...

I apologize that this looks like a bandwagon last minute, but I'm also not willing to cause a double lynch (or even get close) today by voting Gwath (plus I don't have time to substantiate any arguments)

so

++Ilya

Boromir votes:

Originally Posted by Boro

There will be at least another. I was with-holding for reasons I don't care to explain, as it seems unecessary now.

++Ilya

The Ilya bandwagon occurred in the last hour and a half...and some of it seems artificial to me. At least one evil player was involved, I'm sure, if not more.

Boromir looks the most innocent of those. He's the first to consider Ilya, and his thought process looks genuine as he brings up both the ups and downs of voting her.

Fea is quick to echo anyone who suspects Ilya, then builds a huge case against her at the last-minute in an effort to justify her vote. Seems suspicious to me.

Aganzir suddenly considers Ilya after everyone else does. On one hand, the fact that she's more hesitant makes her look more innocent. But then again, she could easily be bluffing since she knows any hesitation might make her look better.

Mac is the first to dedicate a whole post against Ilya. I would say his jumping the bandwagon look most suspicious of the bunch.

Kath is the first to actually vote Ilya, but only after suspicion against her has already begun. I'd say she looks more innocent because she was obviously in a rush when making the post; I don't know how much of the current discussion she had in mind at the time. Also, she didn't know deadline had been extended 15 minutes.

PS: Mith, we all truly apologise for the whole vote. We really weren't trying to upset you.

EDIT: X-posted

[Gollum the Great]

I've been behind practically the whole game (and for that I apologize), but what is everyone else apologizing for? Could someone please enlighten poor Smeagol?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

I've been behind practically the whole game (and for that I apologize), but what is everyone else apologizing for? Could someone please enlighten poor Smeagol?

Several of us were all in an MSN chat last night being goofy (but not talking about the game) and decided it would be funny if we all voted for Legate (he was part of the chat as well) at the same time. We thought that when everybody logged on, they'd shake their heads and slap our wrists and that the game would go on as normal.

Except that it made Mith sad, and now we all feel terrible about the whole situation.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

I've been behind practically the whole game (and for that I apologize), but what is everyone else apologizing for? Could someone please enlighten poor Smeagol?

Heh. Poor Gollum. Yes, love, allow me to explain.

Some of us in our infinite (lack of) wisdom decided it would be funny to 'lynch' Legate toDay. No, Legate is not in the game, nor was he ever in the game. We were just having a bit of fun, but it was poorly received and so (naturally) we feel terrible and are thus apologizing. We weren't trying to upset anyone, but obviously didn't think it through very well.


Also, any questions/further posts should go to the Admin thread, per Mith's instructions. Play is currently suspended and will/may continue at some point, but for now we're not to post on this topic.

Hope that clears things up~!

EDIT: x'd with Miss Fea.

[Mithalwen]

Right while Nogrod has put a lot of the situation correctly on the admin thread , I want to speak for myself.

I do not expect that WW game players do not speak to each other at all off game - I know many of us are friends (or related) and incidentally, personally, I don't intend to let this effect those friendships. I do accept that this was thoughtlessness not malice but the fact is that you put me in a horrible situation and caused me a lot of upset.

This game of deception is based on trust that other that special roles discussion concerning the game is on the game thread. To have half the extant players form a clique to make an in game joke is unnacceptable . This is not a private game but open to all downers not just the ones the mod knows also on LJ or Facebook. I hope you can see that the behaviour was unfair. It crossed the boundary of careless remark. I know that it must be particularly hard for some players not to talk but I know as a "lone" player you sometimes get the feeling that you are at a disadvantage, so I have to say (without wishing to offend anyone) that I wasn't particulary sorry that there was only one player from some notable werewolfing households. Social interraction fine - discussing votes even joke votes wrong.I wasn't ecstatic when I was tipped off about this incident but it was the IM aspect of it that was the main problem and how that would affect the players who were "out of the loop". .

However I am going to let the game go ahead. No one is modfired.

Day will end 6pm tomorrow because frankly I need a night off from the lot of you.

[Mithalwen]

This is carthartic ...


"See the little goblin, see his little feet , And his little nosey-wosey -- isn't the goblin sweet?"

... I'm sure there was something very important I had to do to all of you this morning.


Oh just get on with it....

[Lariren Shadow]

Ok back in the game.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

(One thing: Why did he worry a last-minute bandwagon would go against him? The only one I saw who suspected him was Aganzir. Nervous much?)

Not really true, I did too.

List that I made yesterday:

Sally: Still seems innocent. Nothing really much else except adding to who should be double lynched with Fea today(if she gets lynched and if it’s a double lynch). Not really anything too off about that.

Fea: Well it would be silly to say anything besides she’s guilty. Clearly. She even admits to it(sort of, in her own way). So lynching her today would not be a bad choice.

Brinn: Still innocent to me. Nothing really more to say on that one.

Kath: Again innocent, nothing against her at all.

Agan: I’m leaning towards innocent but still keeping my eye on her. She’s a good player from what I’ve heard and read that makes me think she could have something up her sleeve.

Gwath: Has said nothing today. Either he’s busy in RL or he’s a critic trying not to be anywhere near Fea at all. Biding his time and trying to regroup. Or he could just have been busy on a Friday and Saturday.

Shasta: Hasn’t said much today either. I still have my suspicions of him and his absence adds to them like Gwath’s. I would really like to hear more from both of them though, not sure if that’s enough to add their names to the lynch pile with Fea’s.

Strongbow: Where oh where can Strongbow be? Nowhere to be seen. Nothing at all so I have no idea. I wouldn’t mind, however, voting Strongbow off in a double lynch, mostly because Strongbow hasn’t said anything.

Mac: Still has my suspicions but not as bad as before. His involvement in the Ilya vote was interesting though. There were only two of us(Agan and myself) who considered his suspicious.

Gollum: Has posted a few things today but really hasn’t said much at all. I wish he would say more but is on my list of possible people to lynch if a double lynch is called for.

Boro: Has officially become suspicious to me because of all of his talk with Fea and secret code and warnings and such. It just doesn’t feel right or what someone innocent would do.

Cailin: Still hasn’t said but that’s been how they’ve played the whole time. They don’t seem guilty at all.

That's it for now, I should reevaluate by the end of toDay though.

[Mithalwen]

There is no need to withdraw the spoof votes. I really don't want to see that name again on this thread.