T-I-G LV Sing when you're winning

[the guy who be short]

Ho-Ho-Ho! Wild Man have Deep Laugh!

Although one less innocent, still we can hear theory from phantom! This good, for phantom wise. Like have extra diva/o, singer for all to rally around!

This good new make up for last night double-lynch, think Wild Man.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

So is the phantom now permanently alive?

Oh, I had another question...

Bah, I have to go to class. And I'm teaching it, so I legit have to go.

I'll be back ish5.

[Mithalwen]

No he is the Opera Ghost.... see the note to the day start. He can talk and amuse himself but that is all. Really to amuse the moddess. And it is unorthodox but hey ....

I did say there would be a suprise and it has come early. He may effect the dynamics of the game but it won't effect the mechanics. In the head count the ordos are one down.

[Boromir88]

May I ask miss moddess, I remember a long long time ago, in one of Kuru's thread mentioning a "ghost" in WW. Please tell me that's where you got your inspiration?

[Boromir88]

Oh and Lariren, as far as my strange reference yesterday, it's a book/made into a movie thing. I think Fea caught it, but I'm not sure, the offer is still up for anyone. I would be really impressed if someone knew the book a/o movie.

[the guy who be short]

Caileom: Nog
Mac: Menel
Nog: sally
Gwath: Nog (Nog-2, Menel 1, sally 1)
Shasta: tgwbs
tgwbs: Fea
Lari: Ilya
Menel: Mac
Fea: Menel (Nog-2, Menel-2, sally-1, tgwbs-1, Fea-1, Ilya-1, Mac-1)
Brinn: Nog (Nog-3, Menel-2, sally-1, tgwbs-1, Fea-1, Ilya-1, Mac-1)
Kath: Ilya (Nog-3, Menel-2, sally-1, tgwbs-1, Fea-1, Ilya-2, Mac-1)
Sally: Nog (Nog-4, Menel-2, sally-1, tgwbs-1, Fea-1, Ilya-2, Mac-1)
Ilya: Strongbow (Nog-4, Menel-2, sally-1, tgwbs-1, Fea-1, Ilya-2, Mac-1 Strongbow 1)
Phantom: Menel (Nog-4, Menel-3, sally-1, tgwbs-1, Fea-1, Ilya-2, Mac-1, Strongbow 1)
Boro: -Mac, +Menel (Nog-4, Menel-4, sally-1, tgwbs-1, Fea-1, Ilya-2, Strongbow 1)
Aganzir: Nog (Nog-5, Menel-4, sally-1, tgwbs-1, Fea-1, Ilya-2, Strongbow 1)
TGWBS: -Fea, +Menel (Nog-5, Menel-5, sally-1, tgwbs-1, Ilya-2, Strongbow 1)

Not count
[Sally: -Nog, + Menel]

No vote
Strongbow, Gollum

[Gwathagor]

Ha ha ha! Oh golly, that is too funny. The Phantom of the Opera - now I see why you were in character all day yesterDay, tp.

[Ilya]

It's been a while since of I've done one of these so, here goes.

Record Labeled
Menel - Mac
Nog - Sally
Opera Ghost - Menel

The Public Radio
Sally - First Nog, then Menel
Wild Man - First Fea, then Nog
Boro - First Mac, then Menel
Agan - Nog
Lariren - Ilya
Fea - Menel
Ilya - Bowie
Shasta - Wild Man
Brinn - Nog
Calieomer - Nog
Mac - Menel
Gwath - Nog
Kath - Ilya

Free On Itunes
Bowie (did not vote)
Gollum (did not vote)

EDIT: Aw, tgwbs beat me to it. And he has more numbers. Ah well.

[Boromir88]

Random thought, I'm curious about the case against Nogrod, seemed to form out of mid-air, after questions were raised about sally. I don't know if this was an early attempt to save critic-sally, but there were lots of unjustified attached "suspicions" that grew around Nogrod.

[the phantom]

I'm wondering how many caught Nog's Divo comment. And then his joking confirmation to Agan.

You'd think Ordos would be very concerned about gunning for him after that.

The people who would see it and gun for him anyway- the Critics, Walter, and the true Divo.

[the phantom]

Oh, I forgot to ask.

TGWBS- when you cast your vote at the end, am I correct in thinking that you did not see Agan's vote until after you posted?

[Boromir88]

May I ask tp, if I have your plan right. I thought when you questioned about the "decision" on the Divo that you were up to something. At that time, I didn't know, and then your actions at the end and when you specifically asked me about my thoughts about Nogrod, and said you wanted to give Nog a chance of explaining, it became a little clearer. Long story short, did you know that if you were killed we'd lose you in the count, and thus you wanted to get targeted early, since earlier would be better than later in the show?

Edit: crossed with wild man who be short.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm wondering how many caught Nog's Divo comment.

I noticed it, but I really didn't give it a second thought. I assumed he was joking.

[Ilya]

Yeah, Boro, I was confused about that as well.

When I was going back through the thread, the first one I noticed to mention Nog as guilty was Agan, who said:

I don't know - there's just something I don't like. His question/accusation against Gwath was rather bad. Besides I think it was phrased rather like an accusation, and later he accused Gwath of taking it too seriously. Also I don't like his 'double lynch on day 1 would be riskier for the critics than innocents' logic.

Then Lariren picked it up and said,

That's actually a very good point. It would be like the guilty party to want to try to kill more than one innocent on the first day. Now I shall have to rethink my voting(though I haven't actually voted yet).

I'm gonna keep running through the thread but this is what I got so far.

[Ilya]

Quotes are serviceable substitute for wit.

Post 143 - Opera Ghost (I smile every time I type that):

Fea, Nogrod, Mac, and Boro are all up to something. Of course that doesn't mean we should lynch them. They might even be Ordos purposefully looking like they're up to something in order to draw a Night-kill. But then again, perhaps one of them is the deadly Cobbler. And one is a Critic.

Post 144 - Shasta:

*still reading, but thinking of voting for Nogrod based on what he's read so far*

Post 148 - Gwath:

Currently suspicious of:
Nogrod, for his really contrived case against me. I'm not going to vote him just yet because of what happened last time we tangled.

Post 152 - Fea:

Try not to take this the wrong way, village. I want to test a theory.

Hey phantom, did you spot that thing in that post of Nog's that I spotted?

Post 155 - Fea:

About the obscure question- the phantom said something (not actually about Nogrod), and I'm curious to see if I was catching something or if I was making it all up.

I assume the Fea/Opera Ghost exchange was about TP's Lovers ploy?

End Page 4.

[the guy who be short]

Phantom - cunning ploy! Well done.

Boro/Phantom - Wild Man agree. Must analyse Nogrod-vote. It suspicious to me. Wild Man perhaps will do after Wild Dinner.

Wild Man presume Nogrod jest when Nogrod say he divo. Presume other do also. However, Wild Man feel case against Nogrod was poor.

[Ilya]

Brilliant.

And it only works because it's true.

[Boromir88]

Expect the best when Mith is the Queen.~tp

To think just how quickly we would have lost your voice, I would suspect the Queen would have been quite cross - may have even mod fired the critic who sent in the choice.

Who would want to kill the phantom? I suspect this list will be quite long, but it will give us a good place to start.

Edit: Crossed with bunches

Nope Lariren, this is a twist we haven't seen before.

[the guy who be short]

Now many question to ponder. Look at vote record. Look at why vote Nogrod. Look at why critic want kill phantom.

Before Wild Man ponder these question, Wild Man have some other.

Fea/Phantom. Please explain post 152 and onward discussion, now Noggie, alas, dead.

Shasta - Wild Man expect explanation for why vote him!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

So ish5 turned into ish8, sorry. I was with my students, then realized I was late for a meeting, then realized I had paperwork that needed to go through, then needed dinner before Bio... But I'm out of Bio an hour early, so here goes:

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Fea/Phantom. Please explain post 152 and onward discussion, now Noggie, alas, dead.

Okay.

Originally Posted by phantom

I believe Fea was asking if I had noticed that Nog had called himself a Divo. I did, and I tried to encourage the idea later ("He'll show you lot how to sing").

Yes. I saw the Divo thing, then the phantom kept making these hints about Nog, and basically what I intended was two fold:

1) I wanted to subtly discern if the phantom knew something, or if he noticed something.

If he knew something, then I wanted to know if he wanted me to keep quiet about it, or if he wanted me to find a way to extricate Noggin, who I was reasonably certain by that point was quite innocent.

If, however, the phantom had merely noticed something (as in, wasn't the Seer, but had picked up on something I thought I'd caught too), I wanted to get his opinion as to whether or not he agreed with my reaction that Nog was innocent.

I did not, however, at any point want to say "Hey OG, are you the Seer? If so, you dreamed of Nogrod, right? If not, from one ordo to another, do you agree with my assessment that he's trustworthy?" Because that would have put everyone I was concerned/curious about at risk.

Hence the veiled questions toward who I thought had a bit more special of a role ("For the first time ever I'm afraid of the cobbler") than others.

Originally Posted by Ilya

I assume the Fea/Opera Ghost exchange was about TP's Lovers ploy?

Actually, I totally missed the Lovers thing. I thought the phantom was the seer. Turns out he was just the phantom. My bad.

[Boromir88]

One thing: It's really bothering me that almost everyone is focusing on Nogrod's death alone. What about Menel?~Brinn

Or how about just both? You and whoever else can look through the Menel voters, and I with whoever else can look through the Nogrod voters.

We have a lot of info before us, compliments of Ilya.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

and I with whoever else can look through the Nogrod voters.

I can make myself useful if you like!

[Macalaure]

Second look at Gwathagor: even though he's sufficiently entertaining, apart from some suspicion against Nogrod since Nogrod criticised him, and one comment on Lariren, Gwath has failed to contribute anything of substance to our cause. Wouldn't a critic try to keep a more helpful face? What is he up to?

Shasta gave very little input yesterday and has yet to appear today. I'm interested in what he has to say.

Last Gollum posted, he had not yet caught up with the game. Let's hope he will catch up today.

Strongbow... I don't know what think of him, that's all I can say.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Second look at Gwathagor: even though he's sufficiently entertaining, apart from some suspicion against Nogrod since Nogrod criticised him, and one comment on Lariren, Gwath has failed to contribute anything of substance to our cause.

It always takes me a couple of days to get into my WW groove.

[Boromir88]

Ok, so who would want to target the phantom on Day 1.

Actually, I totally missed the Lovers thing. I thought the phantom was the seer. Turns out he was just the phantom. My bad.~Fea

I missed the lovers thing too, and now it makes sense why he said no Mac and no sally yesterday. But what made you think seer? I didn't see anything to suggest it. I would imagine if tp was a seer, he'd be out in the open, but he wouldn't make himself a target at night. Also, I doubt he'd draw that much attention about the cobbler. At least not the cobbler of this opera, who would be able to oust him to the wolves. That's my guess about it, I guess we should wait on tp though.

Sally - I've seen sally speak out strongly against tp being an early kill choice. She seems to generally enjoy keeping him around, at least for a couple days. The choice doesn't fit her. I also want to wait to hear some more from sally. I don't think her uncounted late vote should be a reason of suspicion, we're talking about missing the vote by a matter of seconds, and her last post you can tell she was in a rush. Her original vote for Nog, and then retract for Menel, should be looked into.

Lariren - well she's admitted to being completely terrified of him? Oh ok, but that's pretty weak. I have no guess as to what her thought process/style is yet.

Fea - she played a long with him yesterday, I forget who said it (tp maybe?) but she's perfectly capable of acting sweet and loving and then turning around, killing you at night. Similar to sally though, she just generally seems to like having tp around for a little while. I also ask, why not me last night (not to sound me-centered)? Fea was buttering me up as well.

Ilya - I'm sensing a theme here, because Ilya's even lamented about tp not being in villages before. Would she want to get rid of tp early?

Brinn - Somehow I don't see Brinn missing tp all that much, day 1 or day 5, wouldn't matter. Brinn's overall posting today makes me think she's innocent, but I could see this being a Brinn kill.

Kath - Same for Kath, I think she relishes for the chance to have killing power. She seemed to take delight in being able to get rid of me and Nogrod early, in our last stint, and I would expect the same if she had a chance of tp. I know when I have the power to kill, I look to get rid of Kath early, and now I sense the feeling is mutual.

Agan - Doesn't make sense as an Agan target early on. Unless tp was deemed a threat, but that could be said for anyone here. I haven't looked into Agan's posts too much yet, which is unusual as she usually makes a mark in me early. Her comment about laziness looks innocent, I can't picture Agan as a lazy wolf, but she hasn't been normal Agan. May I ask Agan, did your involvement in your last game wear you down a bit?

Gwath - Similar to Kath, his sig should explain it - that conniving, no good, yet brilliant werebear.

Shasta - The Shasta-tp fued seems to be well known. I can see tp being an early target for Shasta. But not for fueding reason, I picture Shasta to be far more calculating then getting rid of someone because of a fued. If Shasta is innocent, he'd want an innocent tp around, if a wolf, he'd want an innocent tp gone.

Strongbow - not sure about him. He's well read and got a great grasp on how people and things work. His cobbler post today looks earnest and honest, I don't have a grasp on him yet.

Macalaure - Kind of similar to Shasta, if a wolf, and if deemed a threat than I think he'd want tp gone fast. However, the way tp didn't want to see Mac (and sally for that matter) be lynched yesterday speaks towards Mac's innocence. Unless tp was targetted because the wolves thought he was the seer, but I'm not convinced that's why tp was targetted. Also, I'd imagine if Mac was a wolf, and believed someone to be the seer, he'd do a little more poking around to try to get the seer to let a hint slip.

Gollum - I have no idea about 'im.

tgwbs and Cailin - I put them together because for these two it's been so long since they've been here, I've forgotten a lot. Add on top of that, I could never get a good read on these two. See with tp, I expect ploys, traps, lots and lots of involvement, for good or bad I may be able to figure it out in a couple days. With Fea I expect chaos and plain out insanity. But for tgwbs and Cailin, I have no idea what you're going to get. The only way I've been able to spot a wolf Cailin was from the hunter's kill, and the only way I knew tgwbs was innocent was when he voted for himself.

That's what's running through my head, make of it what you will. There may not even be anything useful at all anyway. There are a couple variables that muddy it up. That is any critic would see tp as a threat, and thus know they would have to get rid of him sooner rather than later. How soon of would depend upon what they thought his role was...If they believed he was the seer they would want him gone right away, and with no Ranger in the way to stop it, they'd do it right away.

Edit: crossed with Lari and Mac

And Lari be my guest, I may not get to that until tomorrow - so there's your chance to get in something that hasn't already been posted 3 times

[Macalaure]

Cailineomer -> Nogrod

I still think this is probably not a suspicious vote, but I don't have a good picture of the two due to lack of posts.

Mac -> Menel
Nogrod -> Sally
Gwath -> Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1)

Gwath takes his first-best suspicion and gets the bandwaggon rolling with it. Careless.

Shasta -> tgwbs (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1)

Said he will explain today. Why do I have the feeling his explanation won't satisfy us...

Wild man -> Fea (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1)

I don't really understand why the wild man narrowed himself down to Fea and Kath in the end.

Lari -> Ilya (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1)

Solely based on her hunch. Ordos do that because they don't have any better. Critics do it to get away with a throwaway vote.

Menel -> Mac (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1, Mac 1)
Fea -> Menel (Nogrod 2, Menel 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1, Mac 1)

I find her vote less suspicious than Gwath's one, but not by much.

Boro -> Mac (Nogrod 2, Menel 2, Mac 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1)

Fair reasoning, fair placement.

Brinn -> Nogrod (Nogrod 3, Menel 2, Mac 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Ilya 1)

The one bad black ugly stain on her white vest.

Kath -> Ilya (Nogrod 3, Menel 2, Mac 2, Ilya 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1)

Maybe the most innocent-looking vote of all, I'd say.

Sally -> Nogrod (Nogrod 4, Menel 2, Mac 2, Ilya 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1)

I highly doubt a critic would have made this vote. A very inconvenient spot in the Nogwaggon.

Ilya -> Strongbow (Nogrod 4, Menel 2, Mac 2, Ilya 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Bowie 1)

*goes to look for Ilya's picture in the encyclopedia next to "throwaway vote"*

phantom -> Menel (Nogrod 4, Menel 3, Mac 2, Ilya 2, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Bowie 1)
Boro -- Mac -> Menel (Nogrod 4, Menel 4, Ilya 2, Mac 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Bowie 1)

Saving Private Nogrod.

Aganzir -> Nogrod (Nogrod 5, Menel 4, Ilya 2, Mac 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Fea 1, Bowie 1)

The placement looks rather evil, but she was after him for a longer time.

Wild man -- Fea -> Menel (Nogrod 5, Menel 5, Ilya 2, Mac 1, Sally 1, tgwbs 1, Bowie 1)

Saving Private Nogrod II.

Sally -- Nogrod -> Menel

Not too little, but too late. Attempt to prevent double lynch. Pretty innocent.

[Macalaure]

Before I retire for today...

Suspicious
Fea
Gwath

Somewhat suspicious
Ilya
Brinn

Nowhere land
Shasta
Strongbow
Gollum
Cailineomer

Somewhat unsuspicious
Lari
Aganzir
tgwbs
Boro

Unsuspicious
Sally
Kath

Originally Posted by Boro

Also, I'd imagine if Mac was a wolf, and believed someone to be the seer, he'd do a little more poking around to try to get the seer to let a hint slip.

This is not really important now, but as a wolf, I would definitely not do that. I'd keep what I suspect for myself and get rid of the offender immediately at night without risking to have anybody suspect the same or, worse, leave a trail to myself by my behaviour. Only my fellows could convince me otherwise (which is why you lived past Day1 in our last village together ).

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Mac -> Menel
[...]
Gwath -> Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Menel 1, Sally 1)

Gwath takes his first-best suspicion and gets the bandwaggon rolling with it. Careless.

You know, Mac, my vote isn't much different from yours in terms of its context and consequences. Yes, Nogrod already had one vote, but Menel hadn't even been making any weird passive-aggressive attacks against you (as he had towards me). If anything, you had less reason than I for your vote.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

So phantom, now that you're dead, do you intend to help the good guys or the bad guys? Was it specified that dead-but-still-talking OG is on anybody's side but his own?

I ask this for the same reason I earlier had a question about the Cobbler (but still can't remember what it was. It was a question I ran across whilst rinsing shampoo from my hair before work this morning, but was too busy to ask before it ran off...).

Something...

Cobbler can't spy on himself...
Lover dies, second Lover gets to avenge (I'm having a bad sugar crash at the moment after a really, really long day, so forgive me if I screw this up, I'm just thinking aloud).
Lovers are on their own side, right?
Is one of the Lovers a critic? No, can't be... they're singers.
Are they typical Lovers in that they want to win? That is what Lovers do, yes? I ask this because you remember that the only Lovers game I did, I was an ish-Lover with special powers and rules, so I don't remember what they *should* be.

I still can't remember what my question was.

Oh. No, now I remember...

Does the Cobbler/Spy get to find out the role of the person s/he spies on, or is that information given only to the Critics? Because if the Cobbler knows her/his marks, than there's an extra player on the side of evil who knows that who s/he may or may not be voting for is ordo. Do you follow?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Boro

Or how about just both?

I have looked at both. But in the end, it's the Menel voters I find more suspicious. The votes against Noggie (heh, I almost wrote Noogie there) seem more reasonable to me. Of course, I know I'm biased because I voted Nogrod myself. But it's probably in the same way you as a Menel voter are biased.

So, the votes:

Cailin: ++Nogrod

First vote of the Day...her vote post was her only post, so I can't read from it. But it's not particularly suspicious.

Mac: ++Menel

Probably the least suspicious of the Menel voters. His suspicions of him came from the beginning. He voted so early, I doubt he was expecting any sort of bandwagon to occur.

Gwath: ++Nogrod

The two did have a brief scuffle earlier in the Day, so his vote doesn't exactly surprise me. On Day 1 when there aren't strong candidates, any sort of negative interaction with a player can result in a lynch vote.

Shasta: ++tgwbs

Came out of the blue, no explanation. I'd like to hear one when he shows up.

tgwbs: ++Fea

In the post before, he said he wouldn't vote her. And then he does. Why the Legate 180? (yes I'm still using that phrase )

Lariren: ++Ilya

Vote is based on a hunch. Not a strong reasoning, but common for Day One. I'm not worried about her vote.

Fea: ++Menel

Says there's no one else she wants to lynch. Not exactly strong reasoning.

Boro: ++Mac

Says earlier that he doesn't like Mac's vote for Menel.

Brinn: ++Nogrod

Best option of those who already received a vote, plus as I mentioned, Menel was being talked about and I didn't want him lynched. Honestly, I don't think I had great reason behind my vote and on Day 1; I never do. I often do get suspected for my vote and hey, I can't really blame you people...so I won't argue it too much.

Kath: ++Ilya

Seems to suspect her consistently, so nothing unusual jumps out to me.

Sally: ++Nogrod

Of the Nogrod votes, it is her's that looks most bandwaggonish, I think. What I find interesting is that she joins the "suspect Menel" bandwagon earlier and puts him highest on her lynch list, yet votes Nogrod. I can't help but wonder if she did this to make herself look good (by saying she's voting him to prevent a double lynch).

Ilya: ++Strongbow

Based on feeling, his posts seem abrasive. Her vote doesn't have strong reasoning, but that's not what worries me. She spread out the votes even more at a critical time which seems rather safe.

Boromir: --Mac/++Menel

Sort of indicates he'll make an explanation later, though he hasn't yet. I find it very interesting that he originally voted Mac for his Menel vote, then he changes his vote to Menel himself. No explanation, but my guess is to "save" Nogrod.

Aganzir: ++Nogrod

She suspected him all Day, so her vote is no surprise.

tgwbs: --Fea/++Menel

Another "save" Nogrod vote I'm guessing?

Sally: --Nogrod/++Menel

Tried and failed to prevent a double lynch from occurring. Looks pretty innocent, but then again she could be trying to make herself look good.

Non voters:

Strongbow: Seems to have missed the deadline, which happens.

Gollum: Was there at deadline, but chose not to vote due to lack of time. Choosing not to vote is one thing, and if it's a one-time thing I don't mind. But he abstained at a critical time when it looked like a double lynch was possible...I don't care who he would've voted for, he had the opportunity to prevent the double lynch and he didn't do anything.

About this whole "save Nogrod" thing...

It seems that came up when his whole divo comment was brought up via secret code talk. Did you quts really think Noggie was the divo? I don't think he'd be so obvious. It seems to me that this whole discussion which resulted in a switch of votes to Menel was just another ploy. Probably someone has intentions behind the ploy to misguide the wolves, but at the same time I think it's just as likely someone else has intentions to misguide everyone else. So the people who were involved:
tp
Fea
Boro
tgwbs
...Might be innocent or might be guilty. Whatever they are, I'll be watching them...with the exception of tp, for obvious reasons.

So based on votes, in order of suspicious to least suspicious:
tgwbs
Boro
Ilya
Sally
Fea
Gollum
Shasta
Kath
Lariren
Aganzir
Mac
Cailin
Gwath
Strongbow

Also, I must mention I did a double take on Cailin's post toDay because at first I thought it was Shasta which made me really confused. Apparently their avatars are very similar in colour. So apologies if I mix you two up again. But goodness, I should've figured it out immediately what with the Eomer references.

Btw, while I was writing this post I got interrupted by Grey's Anatomy, and on top that I have a headache. I can't even remember everything I wrote I wrote in this post or whether I'm forgetting something I meant to say. And I'm sure I'll x-post with many others, but I don't feel well enough to care..

[the phantom]

A question for Sally...

Quite often you are such an English major. Correcting things, you know. If you type something wrong, you must fix it! You're very consistent about it.

So, if I spot a grammar or spelling mistake from you, should I assume it is intentional?

Answer choices-
A) Ummm... huh?
B) *wink*

Originally Posted by Fea

So phantom, now that you're dead, do you intend to help the good guys or the bad guys? Was it specified that dead-but-still-talking OG is on anybody's side but his own?

Yes, I'm on my own side in a way.

No, no- I won't be attempting to mislead you (lynch wrong). Not at all. I will give honest commentary on the songs you weave, but I shall refrain from all out attack or defense. I will interact though. I may even attempt to stir some things up.

Basically, you all can trust me. But I will not throw my weight around.

I will certainly post YouTube links though.

Touch me, trust me
Savour each sensation

[Boromir88]

Does the Cobbler/Spy get to find out the role of the person s/he spies on, or is that information given only to the Critics?~Fea

I can't see how the cobbler would be able to pass on info that xe didn't know xeself. (Did I use that properly?) That would make a giant continuity problem within the fabric of the performance.

Only my fellows could convince me otherwise (which is why you lived past Day1 in our last village together ).~Mac

So, is that what happened again last night?

Sort of indicates he'll make an explanation later, though he hasn't yet.~Brinn

Nobody asked...if and when someone does, I would ask that the say "please."

I did tell a lie, that well I should probably come clean with now since it's done and over. Not exactly a lie, more of an exaggeration, but I think it worked - or at least if I'm fooled I will have a clear conscience.

Mac's vote for Menel yesterday reminded me of his prior wolvery and denial about how he ever made a "case" against Brinn. But after stating Day 1 concerns I backed off for the rest of the game, only to be completely manhandled by him the rest of the time. I spent many a night beating myself up for never following up. So, whenever I next saw Mac make a move I thought suspicious, I promised myself I would go through with it. I did, and if he's running me around in circles again, at least I followed through this time, and can feel better about it. Basically, my vote for Mac had no good reason other than to make myself feel better for a prior mistake.

Edit: crossed with Lari

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

A question for Sally...

Quite often you are such an English major. Correcting things, you know. If you type something wrong, you must fix it! You're very consistent about it.

So, if I spot a grammar or spelling mistake from you, should I assume it is intentional?

Answer choices-
A) Ummm... huh?
B) *wink*

Erm....bwah???? (Aka option A)


Sorry I've been gone so long. I got hijacked by some friends (okay, it was my idea but one of them is super-talkative so it took a while longer than I'd expected) to watch The Princess Bride and I didn't get to make a post. Onto it now, but I can't promise it will be by any means brilliant. Back soon.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Did you quts really think Noggie was the divo?

No. Like I said, I thought the phantom was special, not Nog, but that the phantom was using Nog as a way to hint without being too obvious. Remember the exchange where he was like, "Wait, you didn't mean Nogrod. In that case, yeah, definitely."? I took that as a clue that I was on the right track: that he hadn't been talking about Nog per se, but that he'd been using Nog to talk about himself.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Basically, you all can trust me. But I will not throw my weight around.

Even that pesky cobbler, huh?

J/K, in case anybody gets too stirred up. I just like knowing all the answers, you know? It irritates me in a really highly irrational way not to know how many players are on each 'side.' And then I remember J.K. Rowling writing "Harry, the world isn't made up of only good guys and Death Eaters" or whatever the exact wording was...

Originally Posted by Boro

I can't see how the cobbler would be able to pass on info that xe didn't know xeself. (Did I use that properly?) That would make a giant continuity problem within the fabric of the performance.

Cobbler sends choice to Mith, Mith sends choice to Critics. I envision it sort of like the Cobbler picks up a packet of information which xe never gets to read. Of, of course, Cobbler PMs Mith, Mith PMs back, Mith PMs Cobbler. I know Mith used the phrase 'blind drop' and I assume that means that the Cobbler doesn't get to PM the Critics (that the Cobbler doesn't know their identity) but I just wondered if it meant that the Cobbler doesn't actually know the info that xe is acquiring.

Originally Posted by B88

Beautiful analysis if I may say so myself Lari

Yes, I totally agree. Informative, concise, and without triggering my ADD reaction like a list of quotes always, always does. Psh, Newbie... You're fair game now.

Originally Posted by Boro again...

Why all the big deal about people who were making a big deal about the Nogrod voters?

Is this rhetorical? I can't help but agree with Brinn. Since during the whole of my thing with the phantom yesterday, I never particularly thought Nog was a bad guy, I watched people jump him with confusion. Of course I knew that singling him out might be harmful, but that's a werewolf truism, and since he was the major example the phantom had brought to my attention, I figured if I had any hope of tp understanding what point I was driving at, I shouldn't start making things up and hope for the best.

So while my vote for Menel was a typical Day 1 style vote from me (is there anybody here that doesn't know my complete derision for Day One votes? It's a bunch of uninformed people making determinative decisions based on (if they're ordo) absolutely nothing that can - in a scientific environment - be called fact. Hence, it irritates me much the same way teaching ID in a bio classroom 'because you can't prove it isn't true' irritates me.)...

While my Menel vote was basically, "Well, I went down a list and couldn't find a better option..." it was weird seeing everybody jump on Nog given that his only real stand out action of the game was hinting that he might indeed be a good guy.

Hence the reason people are curious about the bandwagon onto Nog. Now my suggestion for that is that a Critic voted Nog early (I don't think late, due to the flurry of cross-posts: it strikes me as odd that a Critic would draw that much attention to his/her own lynch-pin vote on the first day of the game), or that it was a bunch of misguided villagers.

So I do understand why everybody wants to trace Nog's descent into hell, but I'm also curious why people followed up on my admittedly random Menel vote. "I can't think of anybody better" is nothing at all like "He did something suspicious." So in a tie-race between two ordos wherein the voters were trying their best to save one by killing the other, when it turns out that seriously, neither of them were Gifted? On day one?

The person I find most interesting at the moment, actually, looking back over the votes and the timing, is Sally.

Sal, have you said why you retracted? My only interest in the timing of it was purely practical: yesterday at Day End I wanted to know if it counted. But today, though it didn't count, I want to know why you tried saving Nog when, as it turns out, he was no more important than Menel.

Originally Posted by Ilya

It seems like it's always ordos who want to start stuff, and the wolves who jump on it later. Does that make any sense?

It makes sense, but I'm not sure if I agree. It makes sense because if a wolf jumps onto an idea after an Ordo, it can't be directly traced back to them: they can say, "But it seemed like so-and-so really knew what they were talking about, and I'd thought the same, so when somebody backed up my suspicion - so sorry it was wrong - it seemed obvious that I should vote the same way" or whatever.

At the same time, I've seen situations where wolves start stuff just to cause enough trouble so that people have to look at everybody, not just one or two people.

But I do basically agree with you: typically it's misguided ordos who mess things up. As a historical footnote, it makes me think of civilians listening to war time propaganda: with the informed people nudging people's opinions, the ordos can't entirely be blamed for mistaking fake stuff as fact.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Sure, tp can tell us he's on our side, but how do we know that for sure.

Well, if we find out if he either always tells the truth or always tells a lie, then we should ask him what the guy next to him would say because then either way the answer is a lie because the guy telling the truth would quote the liar with the lie, and the liar would be lying, so...

/Labyrinth.

Dear David Bowie: I am still in love with your makeup. ♥me.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Since his alliances may shift on a Day to Day basis, all the more reason not to listen to him.

On a more-serious-than-movie-reference note, isn't this essentially what we do even when he's not OG? We know he wasn't a critic, and we know he wasn't The Cobbler, but just as if he was still playing, we don't know his priorities (apart from 'himself') and we know he has no special other knowledge he can give us. So I propose this: it's dangerous to assume he's a declared innocent, because he's not: he's a declared OG, which, if you've watched the musical/movie or read the book, Erik was a nutjob serial killer with an absolute skill at torture and manipulate. The trapdoor king. So I propose: we listen to him about as much as we normally do: if his suggestions seem reasonable, we take a shot. If he sounds a bit too much like himself, we skip it.

Everybody follow?

Originally Posted by Mith

Has the power to attack one other once at any later part of the game. Not obliged to use power - little wild card.

Does xe die if xe uses this power (sort of like a Hunter, I'm thinking)?

And is it made public? Like, if one soulmate kicks it, and they're marked out as 'a soulmate died' and the other one decides to use this wild card, as you call it, will there be a narration like "The other soulmate, Player X, killed off Player Y to make up for the death of X's soulmate, Z" or will it be like "Player Y has been killed"?

Originally Posted by TGWBS

All know his viewpoint completely objective. Therefore all can trust phantom.

This creeps me out, Wild Man. Because 1) there's not really any such thing as objectivity, but more importantly 2) the phantom doesn't have any special knowledge that we know of, so anything he says is just as likely to be dead wrong as anything any of the rest of us say. So saying we can all trust him is like saying we can all trust pre-death Nog, or pre-death Menel (examples used because roles are now known). We can trust that the phantom isn't a Critic, but we can't trust that his viewpoints will be of any aid to anybody but the Moddess, who shall be amused by them.

Originally Posted by Sally

I want to think about who would have killed Phantom in more detail, but it's too early, so I'll have to get to it in the Night.

Everybody?

No, but I do agree: later (after I eat) I intend to take a look see about what might draw people to TP (apart from his native egoism).

Originally Posted by Sally

Yes, but you have to remember that our dear Mac is a smooth one. In fact, that's why the littlest thing sets me off about him, because I've been in his pack before and know how clever he can be. I'm just saying.

Ditto that. My first game with Mac we were packmates and we - rather obviously, I must say - won. And another time I played with him, he was a wolf, and he had me totally fooled. Mac keeps me neurotic.

That said, I don't think he's a bad guy in this game. Watch me be wrong...

--

Wow, so finally caught up...

I love going to bed and finding so much to read in the morning. It gives me something to wake up to, my lovelies, please don't desist.

[the phantom]

Permanently alive? I wouldn't phrase it like that.

I am permanently not a part of the singing competition. You have all intruded upon my world of music.

But that does not mean I cannot single out individuals and help them, or thwart them, depending on how honorable I feel their intentions are.

[the phantom]

At his time, I wish to back the voices of TGWBS, Lari, Gollum, and Gwath. Do not eliminate them today.

The first has performed better than any thus far. The second is new to this world, and her interest should not be discouraged. The third voice is new to me, and I wish for time to evaluate it. The fourth is on a whim.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by TGWBS

Fea/Phantom. Please explain post 152 and onward discussion, now Noggie, alas, dead.

Yes sir.

I believe Fea was asking if I had noticed that Nog had called himself a Divo. I did, and I tried to encourage the idea later ("He'll show you lot how to sing").

The rest of it, though Fea will have to confirm this, involved comments I made hinting I was one of the lovers. Or at least that is what I guessed.

And indeed, I was attempting to hint that I was a Lover. That was my primary attempt to aid you against the Critics- get them to flush a kill on me and spare the Seer and the true Lovers.